Does D'Antoni have the dedication to recruit well?

[CockyHerd]

So expecting out of the 351 Div I programs to be, some of the time, among the 35% to go to the NCAA or NIT, E V E R is too much to ask.

And that is absolutely not too much to ask........That's not what your previous longer post said.

I'd like to be in the conversation for the post season every year......

I just don't understand all of the hate being thrown Dan's way after a successful season last year? It was a step forward in every way. Now we have to build on it.

 

[KeatonsCorner]

I'm at practice nearly everyday. I love what I see. We are much quicker and we shoot better than last year. Someone mentioned Adjin's weight. I was talking to him last night and asked him what he weighed when he came in the door at MU. He said 184 and now at 215. He agrees he has a long way to go but he's getting there. Aleksa and Milan are similar in different ways. While Aleksa is bulking up, Milan has totally changed his body since coming. I was also talking to him last night. He is 30 pounds lighter then when he came but he has gained a lot of muscle. If we get Bennett and Robinette on the floor you will see 2 beefed up guys that do NOT play with their backs to the basket. They shoot the 3's and run the floor very well.

Iran Bennett is not a MU basketball commit, but appears to be drifting far, far away from Marshall on the recruiting trail.

 

[CockyHerd]

Iran Bennett is not a MU basketball commit, but appears to be drifting far, far away from Marshall on the recruiting trail.

Who said he committed?

What makes you say he's drifting? Not saying we're anywhere near the top of his list. Just wondering where you're getting your info?

 

[The Real SamC]

Despite that, I think we should compete for a conference championship every year. Which is what we did last year.

We did? We were not 17-16, with some of the 17 being world beaters like Eastern Illinois, Eastern Kentucky, and Wyoming, losing to Grand Canyon, Morehead, and Div II Newberry? Wow. Good to know.

Hardly

1837. Cam Henderson. Jule Rivlin. Hal Greer. George Stone. Russell Lee. Mike D'Antoni. Dan D'Antoni. The House The Herd Filled. Rick Huckabay.

Where?

You do remember Satan's vile servant, KO Marcum, right?

Our basketball practice facility hasn't had a single improvement other than a coat of paint (Wrong color green) and new rims.

Contrasted to? Have you seen the G Y M S that FAU, FIU, UNT, Rice, or UTSA play in? UTSA has the 40 different lines for different sports on their floor deal like Gullickson Hall. This is a football league.

small state college

You don't have a clue. MU is, by far, the best public college in WV, and you can get a fine education here. I have a Marshall diploma on the wall. It is worth millions. I have hired and fired people for 30 years, and a Marshall education just means a whole lot more than anything else. I interview people from some of our joke state colleges and it is like they never went to college. I am proud of Marshall and am sorry you are not.

I've also put my money where my mouth is since 1985.....How about you?

Don't play that card. 110% Big Green.

So you write checks because you want us to finish 5th, because that is all we can expect. Rah Rah.[/quote]

 

[19MU88]

To say Robinette is an above average athlete is to admit you haven't seen him move before or that you simply don't acknowledge reality

He's 6'7 270+ pounds and went to prep school at Harvgrave because he couldn't get his grades and his conditioning in order

are you really 5 foot 4?

 

[CockyHerd]

We did? We were not 17-16, with some of the 17 being world beaters like Eastern Illinois, Eastern Kentucky, and Wyoming, losing to Grand Canyon, Morehead, and Div II Newberry? Wow. Good to know.

Finished tied for 3rd in the conference. Lost to eventual champion (Who we split with in the regular season) who upset MSU in NCAA Tournament.

1837. Cam Henderson. Jule Rivlin. Hal Greer. George Stone. Russell Lee. Mike D'Antoni. Dan D'Antoni. The House The Herd Filled. Rick Huckabay.

That's our history...Not national history. I'm proud of all of them but Huck's been gone for 28 years.

You do remember Satan's vile servant, KO Marcum, right?

Not sure what he's got to do with any of this, other than proving what we are digging out of.

Contrasted to? Have you seen the G Y M S that FAU, FIU, UNT, Rice, or UTSA play in? UTSA has the 40 different lines for different sports on their floor deal like Gullickson Hall. This is a football league.

They finished 13th, 9th, 10th, 11th, & 13th in conference and we beat them all. Maybe their lousy facilities have something to do with that.....Guess we're overachievers.

FYI.....Gullickson Hall is our "practice facility".

You don't have a clue. MU is, by far, the best public college in WV, and you can get a fine education here. I have a Marshall diploma on the wall. It is worth millions. I have hired and fired people for 30 years, and a Marshall education just means a whole lot more than anything else. I interview people from some of our joke state colleges and it is like they never went to college. I am proud of Marshall and am sorry you are not.

I hope so.......Really?? We're comparing ourselves to WV State, Bluefield St, Concord? I hope we're aiming a bit higher.

I'm not disparaging Marshall.....I'm a proud Graduate as well. It's just not a selling point....say versus Davidson.

Don't play that card. 110% Big Green.

So you write checks because you want us to finish 5th, because that is all we can expect. Rah Rah.

[/QUOTE]

Thanks.....Keep it up....Only 3300 Big Green members annually is embarrassing.

 

[pdbailey]

MU last played in the NCAAs three decades ago. Depending on which guide you read we are about 9th longest drought among teams that have ever played in it. MU last played in the NIT half a decade ago. And, yes, every guide and website says we will be "pretty good", meaning 4th or 5th in our one-bid league. NIT road team or offered a slot in one of those pay to play deals.

I'm tired of pretty good.

Well, pretty good is much better than "****ing terrible", which is what we were under Herrion.

 

[pdbailey]

When your main competitor on the recruiting trail for your players is LONGWOOD COLLEGE, then...no..... you aren't doing well at recruiting

If Kelly and Elmore didn't fall into Dan's lap, he probably doesn't win 10 games last season. Neither were kids he recruited.

If you don't think they had to be recruited then you must be an invalid.

 

[pdbailey]

To say Robinette is an above average athlete is to admit you haven't seen him move before or that you simply don't acknowledge reality

He's 6'7 270+ pounds and went to prep school at Harvgrave because he couldn't get his grades and his conditioning in order

And your just pissed your boy Greeley didn't get offered. I know a hell of a lot about basketball and I'll leave it at that.

 

[KeatonsCorner]

Who said he committed?

What makes you say he's drifting? Not saying we're anywhere near the top of his list. Just wondering where you're getting your info?

Considering he nearly committed to Southern University this weekend.... I'd say he is drifting.

 

[pdbailey]

Considering he nearly committed to Southern University this weekend.... I'd say he is drifting.

Hmm, he nearly committed when he visited Huntington as well. Sounds like a kid that just hasn't made up his mind yet.

 

[The Real SamC]

Finished tied for 3rd in the conference.

That's our history...Not national history. I'm proud of all of them but Huck's been gone for 28 years.

FYI.....Gullickson Hall is our "practice facility".

I'm not disparaging Marshall.....I'm a proud Graduate as well. It's just not a selling point....say versus Davidson.

3rd in this one-bid league just shows what this football league is in basketball.

And what is the basketball history of, say FIU? Or UNT? Or, for that matter, ECU or Tulane?

As to all of this practice facility ho-ha. We have had multiple threads on that subject. Our practice facility is called the Henderson Center. I get why UK or Louisville need practice facilities. I even get Northern Kentucky or UTC or ETSU or Evansville need them. They all play in civic centers that are only set up for basketball on game day. The only other use of the HC is the Lady Herd. We get to practice on our own floor every day. That is an advantage, not a disadvantage.

And, no Marshall isn't Davidson. Never said it was. Marshall is a solid national research university with majors in about anything you might want to grow up to be, great professors, and good facilities. No, the rare kid (we had a thread on that) that can get into Davidson, or High Point, or Duquesene, or Rice should JUMP on it. But MU is as good a public college as any. I don't think we are losing kids to academics over most of the public schools in one-bid leagues.

 

[bbneutralfan]

Excuse me than cocky. I started watching in 1960. So if you started in the late 60s then your expectations should be higher than what Dan is doing thus far! Don't get me wrong. Dan and I went to Marshall together and had classes together. I admired Dan as a player as well as the coach he played for. But cocky Dan has never had to recruit - not at Socastee HS in Myrtle Beach nor in the NBA. Moreover in WV today kids have never heard of Dan D'antoni except in Wyoming County. I thought he made a great choice in hiring Chris Duhon who's basketball name and pedigree should have made him the choice as head recruiter. Kids do know who he is. But Dan has chosen to limit that turning recruiting over to Mark Cline who was supposedly to work with our "bigs"! Anyway if we were playing in the "Six Foot and Under" league we would be tremendous. Unfortunately we do not.

 

[CockyHerd]

Excuse me than cocky. I started watching in 1960. So if you started in the late 60s then your expectations should be higher than what Dan is doing thus far! Don't get me wrong. Dan and I went to Marshall together and had classes together. I admired Dan as a player as well as the coach he played for. But cocky Dan has never had to recruit - not at Socastee HS in Myrtle Beach nor in the NBA. Moreover in WV today kids have never heard of Dan D'antoni except in Wyoming County. I thought he made a great choice in hiring Chris Duhon who's basketball name and pedigree should have made him the choice as head recruiter. Kids do know who he is. But Dan has chosen to limit that turning recruiting over to Mark Cline who was supposedly to work with our "bigs"! Anyway if we were playing in the "Six Foot and Under" league we would be tremendous. Unfortunately we do not.

Of course my expectations are higher, so are Dan's!

 

[19MU88]

Excuse me than cocky. I started watching in 1960. So if you started in the late 60s then your expectations should be higher than what Dan is doing thus far! Don't get me wrong. Dan and I went to Marshall together and had classes together. I admired Dan as a player as well as the coach he played for. But cocky Dan has never had to recruit - not at Socastee HS in Myrtle Beach nor in the NBA. Moreover in WV today kids have never heard of Dan D'antoni except in Wyoming County. I thought he made a great choice in hiring Chris Duhon who's basketball name and pedigree should have made him the choice as head recruiter. Kids do know who he is. But Dan has chosen to limit that turning recruiting over to Mark Cline who was supposedly to work with our "bigs"! Anyway if we were playing in the "Six Foot and Under" league we would be tremendous. Unfortunately we do not.

what kind of bigs you want? back to the basket players? in case you missed it, he is trying something different than what has failed the previous decades before he got here.

 

[bbneutralfan]

So 19MU88 as I said. We have a great team for the Six Foot and Under league. In case you haven't noticed the schedule - Ohio State, Cincinnati, Pittsburg, Morehead State, and then CUSA - we'll take a look at those rosters. I think you will plainly see how
Dan is "trying something different."

 

[19MU88]

why don't you try and understand

 

[bbneutralfan]

Uh back at you.

 

[KeatonsCorner]

So here is MU's starting lineup in 2016-17:

6'3 Elmore (15pts/game in 35 minutes/game)
6'3 Browning (13pts/game in 33 minutes/game)
6'4 Loop (9 points/game in 29 minutes/game)
6'5 Taylor (14 points/game in 27 minutes/game)
6'6 Thompson (3 points/game in 11 minutes/game)

reserves:

Burks first off the bench ( 9 points/game in 23 minutes/game)
True frosh Bledsoe (6'6) for Taylor or Thompson
one of the Euros when the opponent takes the ball into the paint (2pts/game in 5 minutes/game)

then who? Thenienman?

Taylor's a guy who ALREADY averaged 4 fouls a game at his 27 minute average, so his playing time can't increase........... and will likely decrease as he'll be called upon more to guard big interior players now that Kelly is gone.... which will stack fouls on him.

Thompson averaged 1 foul every 5 minutes of court time too, so playing him more than 20 minutes a game is going to be near-impossible without SIGNIFICANT defensive improvement

There will be times where Dan will go even smaller too, moving Loop to the 4th guard after bringing Burks in off the bench. And Loop can't rebound.

Dan's "system" that everyone keeps using as a scapegoat can't be ran on an 8-man rotation with ANY success, due to pace and foul trouble............ and Herd has zero bench after Burks and hopefully Bledsoe

 

[Herdmeister]

Absolutely. You wouldn't know having a coach that looks like he's ready for gym class.

 

[KeatonsCorner]

Look even further down the road, since this IS a recruiting thread afterall......

2017-18:

PG - Sr Elmore (6'3), RS Fr or So Allison (6'1), Fr West (5'9)

SG - RS Jr Burks (6'3), RS Jr Watson (6'2)

SF - RS So Thienenman (6'5), RS Jr Nikolic (6'5)

SF/PF - So Bledsoe (6'6), Fr Robinette (6'7)

PF/C - Sr. Thompson (6'6), Jr Penava (6'9), Jr Mijovic (6'9), RS Fr or So Williams (6'9)

is that supposed to instill confidence in the future of the program under Dan?

 

[CockyHerd]

Penava is going to play a lot......

Question is, who will redshirt? Allison or Williams?

And Burks is out for the 1st semester.

 

[Chris McLaughlin]

Does this look like a confident Head Coach?

Hey man, you can stick around and discuss the bball program if you'd like but I'm not going to let this morph into a smack talk thread. I appreciate your insight and recruiting knowledge, so please stick to those topics.

 

[Herdmeister]

Penava is going to play a lot......

Question is, who will redshirt? Allison or Williams?

And Burks is out for the 1st semester.

We have to redshirt 2. I believe Allision is a certainty, only because of his position. At the beginning of the season I would have said Williams but after watching him for the past month or so, I can see him contributing. He will be a VERY good player. He can play our system as is a very smooth player. He can handle the ball, run ths floor and shoot the 3. He reminds me of a youner version of Randy Noll. In fact, I told him that the other day.

 

[Chris McLaughlin]

We have to redshirt 2.

Why do we have to redshirt two? Legitimately asking.

 

[CockyHerd]

Why do we have to redshirt two? Legitimately asking.

17 on the roster.....Really only one....Watson is already sitting out.

 

[Chris McLaughlin]

17 on the roster.....Really only one....Watson is already sitting out.

Only 13 are on scholarship (which is the max allowed), though. Watson is walk-on this year technically speaking.

 

[KeatonsCorner]

Can't redshirt Allison now that Burks is out. That OOC is far too difficult to try to make it through with only Elmore, Browning and walk-ons.

Thrusting a true freshmen with no D1 offers (other than MU) into a 20+ minute/game role right off the bat might be a death nail in the upcoming season.

 

[CockyHerd]

Can't redshirt Allison now that Burks is out. That OOC is far too difficult to try to make it through with only Elmore, Browning and walk-ons.

Thrusting a true freshmen with no D1 offers (other than MU) into a 20+ minute/game role right off the bat might be a death nail in the upcoming season.

It's actually death knell or nail in the coffin.......But it's neither.

Nikolic, Frampton, and O. Elmore will see time.

Yes, they'll miss Burks but they'll survive......He'll be back for the final 4 OOC games including Pitt and Cincy.

As we learned last year, the OOC games will tell us little regarding the conference.

 

[KeatonsCorner]

so Noah Frampton and Ot Elmore are going to carry Marshall to victory....

Elmore averaged 2.6 points a game for a 5-win team last season.... Frampton's the same kid who made one basket in 6 games played last season before he was injured....

opening the season depending on 2 walk ons to be major contributors? Yikes...

D'Antoni had to have known Burks wasn't going to class....... Why didn't he sign a guard who would be immediately eligible instead of stowing away Watson for a year? I think it's because Watson was all he could get.

 

[5150]

so Noah Frampton and Ot Elmore are going to carry Marshall to victory....

Elmore averaged 2.6 points a game for a 5-win team last season.... Frampton's the same kid who made one basket in 8 games played last season before he was injured....

opening the season depending on 2 walk ons to be major contributors? Yikes...

D'Antoni had to have known Burks wasn't going to class....... Why didn't he sign a guard who would be immediately eligible instead of stowing away Watson for a year? I think it's because Watson was all he could get.

if Marshall is so bad then why will Huggins not play in hoops?

 

[Chris McLaughlin]

s
D'Antoni had to have known Burks wasn't going to class....... Why didn't he sign a guard who would be immediately eligible instead of stowing away Watson for a year? I think it's because Watson was all he could get.

He signed Allison.

Regardless, Elmore is going to play 30+ minutes a night. He just is. There's not a ton of PT available to whoever the back-up PG will be.

 

[Chris McLaughlin]

so Noah Frampton and Ot Elmore are going to carry Marshall to victory

Come on, man, No one said that.

Cocky was simply trying to tell you who might be counted on for a few minutes/game until Burks comes back.

 

[5150]

Look even further down the road, since this IS a recruiting thread afterall......

2017-18:

PG - Sr Elmore (6'3), RS Fr or So Allison (6'1), Fr West (5'9)

SG - RS Jr Burks (6'3), RS Jr Watson (6'2)

SF - RS So Thienenman (6'5), RS Jr Nikolic (6'5)

SF/PF - So Bledsoe (6'6), Fr Robinette (6'7)

PF/C - Sr. Thompson (6'6), Jr Penava (6'9), Jr Mijovic (6'9), RS Fr or So Williams (6'9)

is that supposed to instill confidence in the future of the program under Dan?

Again, Dan recruits to his system the same way Beilien used to do and the main thing is to have big guys that can shoot and spread the floor. The other thing is I understand the Penava kid has put on weight and can really shot it. btw, Thompson is 6-7 and plays bigger to his long arms (again something JB used to look for was wing span).

 

[KeatonsCorner]

He signed Allison.

Regardless, Elmore is going to play 30+ minutes a night. He just is. There's not a ton of PT available to whoever the back-up PG will be.

He had to sign Allison. There wasn't another PG on the roster other than a walkon.

I'm talking about SG.

Of course Elmore is going to play the whole game, especially the OOC, due to no depth........... but his minutes/game became an issue by March. He logged too many, Dan even admitted as much. By the end, he was worn out and it showed in his defense.

Dan's Style doesn't lend to players playing 85-90% of the game. The pace is too much.

Not to bring them into it maliciously, but MU's pace is almost identical to PressVirginia........... who operate on a 10-12 man rotation. Dan's got 8 guys........ 7 for the OOC.......... his "style" isn't achievable without sacrificing success.

Being too tired to defend is MU's main problem so far in Dan's tenure

 

[Sean Hammond]

Our pace really doesn't affect our fatigue in the game. We don't run around like wvu does with their press. Our pace just creates more possessions throughout the game. It doesn't make us run more than anyone else at a given time to exhaust our guys and make them need a breather like wvu's press does. Where our lack of depth hurts is when it comes to could trouble and a player has to go to the bench.

What our offense does is make the defense work a hell of a lot harder than we work because of our ball movement. Our players don't run a lot when we're on offense, the defense does because of our screens and the constant pressure we put on defenses with that. It also pulls big men away from the basket and makes them guard 25ft away from the basket, which most don't like to do...especially when they've had 3-4 trips up & down the floor without a stoppage of play.

 

[KeatonsCorner]

Let's not pretend that pace is what causes more possessions for the offense

Being one of the worst defenses in college basketball (300+ ranked) did that. The D'antoni system puts zero value on defense and only tries to outscore

 

[19MU88]

are you really 5 ft 4? geez

 

[Herdmeister]

Let's not pretend that pace is what causes more possessions for the offense

Being one of the worst defenses in college basketball (300+ ranked) did that. The D'antoni system puts zero value on defense and only tries to outscore

You, sir, have no idea of what you are talking about. I have attended nearly every practice and they have devoted hours to defense. With Kelly gone, our interior defense will be greatly improved

 

[Sean Hammond]

Let's not pretend that pace is what causes more possessions for the offense

Being one of the worst defenses in college basketball (300+ ranked) did that. The D'antoni system puts zero value on defense and only tries to outscore

Pace doesn't increase possessions? If that's the case, how do the Golden State Warriors rank 4th in NBA defensive efficiency, yet rank 19th in pts allowed/game? That wouldn't be because pace increases the amount of possessions, would it?