Herd Basketball

[CarolinaHerdzilla]

Another WIN for our Hoopsters Friday defeating another local squad...EKU---91--71 advancing their record to 9--4. A close loss at #9 Xavier 81-77 (after being down by 20 points at the half) should be a major lift to a successful season. CUSA play starts Dec. 28 when the Golden Eagles of So. Miss comes to Huntington. Play now becomes serious in The Herd's quest to win the conference.

HerdZilla22 (G. Sweeney)

 

[mackdaddypapaw]

I’m curious how losing should ever be considered a lift? Morale victories have gotten this program no where and never will. Oh wow we came back against a team missing three of their starters. We did what any team with a pulse should. We will see how well it translates as time goes on I guess.

 

[ilmherdfan]

Some people on this board (don’t know who, don’t care) were predicting 10-15 wins this year. Losing all the players we did and getting Ira Bennett declared ineligible I can see where that thought came from.

BUT, we are 9-4. Can we not be happy about that and be encouraged that we look better today than we did at the beginning of the season?

We’ll see how things go in conference play, but Elmore and Peneva look to be a pretty lethal duo. We should improve as Watson gets into a rhythm.

 

[WVU1975]

Elmore passed Hal Greer on the all time scoring list. I was impressed. I have watched a couple Herd games and looked at CUSA results. It is possible to be one of the top 4 in the conference and have a 20 + winning season this year.

 

[Herdmeister]

The goal is to be in the top 4 and get the first round bye. Having to win a championship winning 4 games in 4 days is a very tough task. Last year was an example. It was obvious that we had lost our legs against MTSU who was playing game #3.
I think the tournament will be a hoot again this year. I, along with quite a number that I know, will be in Frisco rootin' on The Herd!

 

[The Real SamC]

UT-Martin 5-8, 3-8 vs. Div I competition, one bid league
Southern 3-8, 2-8 vs Div I competition, one bid league
NC Central 5-8, 3-8 vs Div I completion, one bid league
Akron 6-2, our signature win, one bid league
UTC 5-6, 3-6 vs Div I competition, one bid league
Concord, not a Div I team, currently 4-4 in Div II
Toledo 5-5, 3-5 vs Div I completion, one bid league
Ohio 5-5, one bid league
Eastern Kentucky 6-6, 4-5 Div I completion, one bid league

Lost to:

Morehead State, 4-7, 2-7 vs Div I competition, one bid league
Illionis 8-5, lost to every good team they have played, all wins but one vs. one-bid leagues.
Xavier 10-1, our "signature loss"

So far, ONE win versus a team with a winning record.

15-15, lose semi-finals of CUSA tournament, pack up the gear, bitch about the baseball field for a few months, spring practice, summer, football. Lather, rinse, repeat.

 

[Tim Hensley]

SamC, do you go to the games? They are fun to watch!

 

[sistersville]

Going to the games fun. Our team putsvon a show

 

[31Herd55]

Going to the games fun. Our team putsvon a show

Entertaining all the way.

 

[ohio herd]

Ba humbug lil scrooge boys. Some of you are so negative, We win a game you complain we lose a game you complain.You whine we beat a team with a losing record. We shouldn't be happy that we played a solid game against a top 10 team. For a team that some had pegged to win around 15 games I think we are doing alright. If you can't see that Marshall basketball is getting better then I don't know what else to say.

 

[Rock98Dog]

Says a fan of a football program that has had 5 good seasons in over 100 years and whose biggest athletic accomplishment is being national rifle champs, a sport that hardly any school competes in. All this despite one of the largest athletic budgets in the country.

Doing less with more, the wvu mantra.

 

[oldeherd]

SamC, do you go to the games? They are fun to watch!

Is "fun to watch" the ultimate goal of MU basketball, or any Herd sports team for that matter? I think that is what SamC and others are trying to point out. For several years just prior to Jon Elmore's arrival there VMI had a coach named Gunner Baucom. His teams played up tempo basketball, shot 3s all night long, averaged over 90 ppg. every seasons, and were always among the nation's scoring leaders. Don't believe they ever won a conference championship or even had a winning season! But they were "fun to watch"; just like the "Three Stooges" and "Rocky and Bullwinkle"!! But shouldn't MU basketball have higher standards and aspire to higher goals??

 

[ohio herd]

Spoken like a true Herd fan whose team has not sniffed the Big Dance in 30 years.

Ha Ha not even close dan. I say that cause unlike some I realize that it takes time to build a program the right way. The Herd plays in a one bid conference so it is either win the tourney or wait another year. We are moving forward and I can live with that.

 

[The Real SamC]

We are moving forward and I can live with that.

We are?

 

[ohio herd]

We are?

I think so Sam. I mean the missing piece of the puzzle is a big guy with an inside presence. We have that next year with the 2 big guys both becoming eligible.. It is a shame Bennett had to sit this year or we would be there now. That's my view and I think it is correct. But hey we can all have an opinion on here .

 

[The Real SamC]

Certainly. And I would love to be wrong on this one, but I don't see it. To me, "forward" means making a legitimate post-season tournament (which means at least the NIT). This year will end without that, and there is no real reason to believe next year, or any year, will be any different. 15-15, the standard loyalists in the stands, less each year as they die off, lather, rinse, repeat.

We have a real double standard between how we look at our two main sports, and our two main coaches.

 

[caliherd]

Double standard my behind Sam. Doc Holiday has been nothing but mediocre during his coaching career at Marshall. We had one exceptional season where we won the conference, a bowl game and only lost one game and that was 2014. We have one conference championship in his 8 years here which has included a gutting of the conference where some of our most successful teams left.

We play in a conference where the majority of the teams finish ranked in the bottom 100s according to Sagarin yet there is still no issue out of the AD office that we aren't winning the conference more frequently. We lost another 2 games at home this year, this time to just conference teams unlike last year where we lost to both OOC teams and conference teams alike. Our home field advantage is starting to slip away. You don’t think that’s accepting mediocrity.

He has been the epitome of mediocre yet he’s about to begin his 9th year at the helm. So no there isn’t any double standard.

Marshall has no standards for any of its programs. There are zero ramifications for losing. How many titles has Mitch Jacobs won and he’s coached here for years. How about Wags (in his case how many seasons has he had above 500?) or the golf coach or Women’s softball or tennis or soccer etc.

Our entire athletic department is mediocre in everything so how you can say the one program that we have had that over the last 30 years has actually had some real success is held to a different standard than the rest is right. There’s actually a standard we can hold football up to.

But even with that in year 8 of our current coach we still celebrated a 7-5 regular season and a bowl win over another mediocre MWC team because the same coach in year 7 led us to a 3-9 season. If that isn’t the definition of mediocrity I don’t know what is. Hell we have fans on this board that have typed we should be HAPPY with 7-5 seasons. That’s all this fan base and athletic department does is accept mediocrity.

Basketball has been mediocre to bad since 1988. Of course there is more patience with what Dan is building considering he made the semi finals of the CUSA tournament 2 years ago and the finals last year. Let’s be honest the only thing that means anything is the NCAA tournament and winning the CUSA tournament is the only way we will get it. He actually runs a system, he plays an exciting brand of basketball and it seems from reports from people that seem to know he’s getting all of the pieces in place to be a very good team in CUSA. But if he doesn’t we will give him another 5 or 6 years because that’s what we do.

 

[Herd-nificent]

I hate to say this but....we beat an Xavier team that had two starters that didn't play at all due to injuries, and a third starter got hurt at the end of the first half and didn't play in the second half.

So...we basically played against their bench, not the true top 10 team.

We shall see, what we shall see...as the league play begins.

 

[W-S HerdFan]

Seriously, Cali? Football I’ll give you. Lots of room for improvement. 2018 sets up as possibly our best chance to have “that” kind of magical season in......20 years. I’m talking access slot. 2 legit higher tier FBS programs - 1 on the road @ SuCks & then the “BIG” rematch w State in the Joan. Best chance since Purdue to have a sellout. Sr QB Sr wideouts experienced OL exp RB’s very exp DL & 2ndary ST - lose Vedvik but gain the All American from Rhode Island. New OC - hopefully a more aggressive offensive scheme that takes advantage of Litton’s strengths and minimizes his shortcomings....yessir - there should be some excitement around 2018’s version of the Herd!
.....,now about round ball:
Anyone who knows our history knows that our fans went crazy for Herd basketball as far back as the early 50’s up through the late 80’s. Not so much since then...so many stars and a good deal of success while packing the Vet with it’s wooden bleachers fully extended you could almost reach out & touch Stone as he let go of a 40 footer, back pedaling so that when the ball swished thru the net he was already past half-court ready on D. Danny played on some GREAT teams in the later 60’s. The NIT semis team (when the NIT was legit) and on through his last year. The cool thing about hiring DD was that unlike ANYONE else in the WORLD HE had experienced the MAGIC that is Marshall basketball. The kind where the Herd goes on a run, the crowd gets SO LOUD that the opposing coach calls a TO, so the crowd actually gets louder during the pause. I believe DD when he says that the biggest home court advantage is basketball!! He is trying (quite effectively) to re-incarnate those exciting experiences he had & transform his players into the next great batch of Thundering Herd teams. He knows the game; he has been in the game for over 70 years, but still has the fire of a coach 40 years his junior. He doesn’t get rattled during the game, and that sets the tone for his players. He has assembled a solid staff & fans are beginning to show up in numbers again.
I will always believe that the 1971-72 NCAA team gave Marshall and the Huntington community something to cling to after the devastating plane crash just a year before.
Don’t be a ey-ore!! Have just a little faith in Danny & these young men. Enjoy the ride they are taking you on!
GoHerd
WS
p.s. I can type a lot of words too!!

 

[caliherd]

I don’t really understand your post? I don’t think you understood mine. I have lots of faith in Danny I was commenting on Sams incessant talk about Doc and Danny having different expectations and how there’s a double standard.

My reply was about that it was BS. For the most part Holidays results have been very mediocre yet there has been no talk of him being fired with the exception of a few message board posters. I am not one of those if you are wondering. If there was some crazy standard Holiday was being held to he would have been canned.

Basketball has been bad since 1988 with a few exceptions. What does the 60 s and 70 s and early 80s have to do with from 88 on us being mediocre.

I think Danny is doing a great job and is going to get better, I think we are only going to get better and better. But I also know if we don’t his job will be safe because we literally have zero expectations of championships out of any of our sports.

Show me anywhere where we have had our AD come out and say we have an expectation of playing for championships and holding coaches accountable in any of our sports. You can’t.

I love the Herd I go see them play if they are terrible or great but to act like that Doc is held to some high standard and Danny isn’t is silly. Neither of them are held to any standard.

 

[Y.A.G Si Ye Nots]

gain the All American from Rhode Island.

!

You're the second poster in the last week to claim that he was an All-American. I asked the last poster where he was getting this info, and he didn't answer. Your turn.

Other than the kid's self-proclaimed status as an All-American on his highlight video, where is this info coming from? Did his previous school mention it ever? Are there any reputable All-American teams that selected him? Any reputable publications that talk about him being an All-American?

 

[Tim Hensley]

If we can get back to where we were last year after losing three starters and developing these young kid all the while, I would say that would be one Hell of an achievement. I can see it coming.

 

[W-S HerdFan]

I see what you are saying Cali! And I believe you are correct in terms of expectations. My thought is this: A lot of this starts with the AD. Mike certainly has his detractors, but on the whole, has he improved the quality of our athletics programs? I say he has. Is he proactive & visible @ games, matches, meets? I say he has. Is the college experience of the student athlete better since MH arrived? That has to be a yes! Ask a ECU fan if they would have MH back as their AD tomorrow? I’m told “in a heartbeat”.
We can gripe about how long it has been since we went dancing (too long!) & we can gripe about how inconsistent the FB program has been since Doc arrived on the scene. BUT - the man has coached us to a 5-0 record in bowls, prospects for next year are good. How in Hamricks position do you make a change? You don’t. And as far as b-ball, I was just trying to say DD is the only person who has experienced MU basketball in its heyday. So, who better to try and re-create that mojo? He’s doing it with players that excel in his system (as you pointed out). Talent level is waay up (recruiting looks even better). So, if DD decides to work another 5 years, am I willing to watch him work that D’Antono magic? You bet.
If the late 60’s can become the roaring 20’s.....oh yeah, I’m in.

 

[The Real SamC]

Double standard my behind Sam. Doc Holiday has been nothing but mediocre during his coaching career at Marshall.

--

He has been the epitome of mediocre yet he’s about to begin his 9th year at the helm. So no there isn’t any double standard.

--

If that isn’t the definition of mediocrity I don’t know what is.

Clearly you don't know what mediocrity nor a double standard is.

Doc (starting from the wreckage that Satan's Vile Servant KO Marcum and his boy Suntan Man left behind) :

5-7, playing 2 P5 teams
7-6 , playing 2 P5 teams, bowl win
5-7, playing 2 P5 teams
10-4, division champion, playing 2 P5 teams, beating one, bowl win
13-1 , conference champion, bowl win
10-3, beat P5 team, bowl win versus a team from the (in other's opinion) awesome THE AMERICAN!!!!
3-9, off year
8-5, playing a P5 team, beat a team from THE AMERICAN!!!!!!!, bowl win

Dan:

11-21, zero wins over non one-bid league teams, no tournament
17-16, zero wins over non one-bid league teams, no tournament
20-15, zero wins over non one-bid league teams, no tournament
currently 8-3, no wins over non one-bid league teams, everybody already saying "next year" (which is the same thing being said about Doc, BTW), no tournament is a certainty this year

is mediocre. And this is a double standard.

Hey, I remember what Marshall basketball used to be. I do. But some the whole "try harder than the next guy" idea and the "I can win with the WV all-stars" (MEMO: the coalfields have HALF the population they used to as people that care about their families have moved away to find work) idea, does not work. It just does not. We are playing Marshall's schedule with Concord's team.

I also remember what Marshall football used to be in the same era. Some of you have forgotten.

15-15, zero signature wins, no tournament. And that is acceptable, and the idea that it is acceptable is sad.

 

[ohio herd]

okay I do not think we are accepting mediocrity with our basketball program. Some refer to the time when we were better. Go back and look and you will see that we have only had one 20 year period 1968- 1988 where that might apply. During that period we went to the NCAA 4 times and the NIT 3 times.I would also point out that even during that run we endured 6 losing seasons and a couple of 500% seasons.In our entire history we have only finished a season ranked in the AP Top 20 one time(1972). I don't know how to measure the Cam Henderson era since we played in a lower division. Since the late 50's we have one other NCAA invite(1956) and 1 NIT invite(2012). So in the past 60 years we have been to the NCAA 5 times and NIT 4 times. In between we have had some solid seasons and produced some talented players. So I don't understand why we can't take a talented coach and give him time to develop a program that can get us to post season play.We all want to play in the post season. I think DD gives us our best shot.

 

[W-S HerdFan]

Sam - you can say that in your opinion, it doesn't work. That in and of itself does not make it so! At least give DD a chance to show us what this year's team can be before writing them off. For God's sakes, man - We haven't even started conference play yet! I will say it again - top 4 finish in CUSA gets a bye. 3 games in 3 days vs 4 in 4. Who knows what the ceiling is for this team? You have in Penava a shooter & shot blacker we haven't had since.......never? Elmore is a gamer/great talent / Burks is great on both ends of the floor. West is unusually good for a true frosh. Milo is there to provide bulk inside and is capable of scoring a little + rebounding. 6th man is up for grabs but Jahnsen, Rondale W & George are neck & neck. We really field a talented squad this season. If you can remember all the way back to the 60's, then you know how long it's been since we had the attitude and moxy of this team. Give 'um a chance, Sam.
Go HERD !!!

 

[W-S HerdFan]

Currently 9-4, no wins over non one-bid league teams, everybody already saying "next year" no tournament is a certainty this year. 15-15, zero signature wins, no tournament.

Sam - tell you what. Let's make a little wager, you & me. $100 contribution to the Tip-off club. I say MU is in the post-season this year, either NCAA or NIT. Other pay to play tournaments don't count. Loser posts a picture of the receipt where the money has been donated. C'mon Sam! It's a sucker bet. If you are right then this is an easy call. Let me know............Go HERD!!

 

[chuck1069]

You're the second poster in the last week to claim that he was an All-American. I asked the last poster where he was getting this info, and he didn't answer. Your turn.

Other than the kid's self-proclaimed status as an All-American on his highlight video, where is this info coming from? Did his previous school mention it ever? Are there any reputable All-American teams that selected him? Any reputable publications that talk about him being an All-American?

I think mayde there talking about K/P/PR/KR Sean Coyne (5-10, 170, Sr.), Portsmouth.
He was named first team
2016 ALL-USA Rhode Island Football Team

• By USA TODAY High School Sports | December 28, 2016

• Not sure if he's still available!

 

[Y.A.G Si Ye Nots]

I think mayde there talking about K/P/PR/KR Sean Coyne (5-10, 170, Sr.), Portsmouth.
He was named first team
2016 ALL-USA Rhode Island Football Team

• By USA TODAY High School Sports | December 28, 2016

• Not sure if he's still available!

That's not who they are talking about. They are both referring to Justin Rohrwasser. His personal highlights, while trying to transfer to an FBS, claim that he was an All-American while at Rhode Island. But there is nothing that can be found to support that claim.

 

[The Real SamC]

I will say it again - top 4 finish in CUSA gets a bye. 3 games in 3 days vs 4 in 4. Who knows....

Sam - tell you what. Let's make a little wager, you & me. $100 contribution to the Tip-off club. I say MU is in the post-season this year, either NCAA or NIT. Other pay to play tournaments don't count. Loser posts a picture of the receipt where the money has been donated.

So the plan is "get hot in the conference tournament" and "who knows" we might win 3 games in a row. That is about like having a retirement plan based on winning the lottery. Yes, somebody wins it every week or so. But saving 4% of your income every week is a hell of a lot better plan.

Again, I hope I am wrong, and will willingly pay the $100, but I'm not. I would much rather go with recruiting actual Div I talent and earning our way in, over the WVIAC all-stars and "who knows".

 

[oldeherd]

Some comments on some of the above:

When commenting about the "gutted CUSA", remember that that fact applies to ALL sports, not just football: fact is that MU basketball team does NOT play a Memphis, a UCF, a SMU, a Tulsa, these days.

As for the crowds coming back to the CAM, right now the attendance is down from last year's game average, and there are generally about 4,000 empty seats in the CAM for every home game. Said in another way, our average game attendance is well below the average game attendance at the old Field House in Danny's playing hey days (over 6,000) a HALF CENTURY ago!!

Hopefully, there will be an uptick in attendance as we get into conference play starting this week.

 

[Sean Hammond]

So the plan is "get hot in the conference tournament" and "who knows" we might win 3 games in a row. That is about like having a retirement plan based on winning the lottery. Yes, somebody wins it every week or so. But saving 4% of your income every week is a hell of a lot better plan.

Again, I hope I am wrong, and will willingly pay the $100, but I'm not. I would much rather go with recruiting actual Div I talent and earning our way in, over the WVIAC all-stars and "who knows".

So we don’t have any D1 talent? Just WVIAC all-stars?

 

[All4TheHerd]

Clearly you don't know what mediocrity nor a double standard is.

Doc (starting from the wreckage that Satan's Vile Servant KO Marcum and his boy Suntan Man left behind) :

5-7, playing 2 P5 teams
7-6 , playing 2 P5 teams, bowl win
5-7, playing 2 P5 teams
10-4, division champion, playing 2 P5 teams, beating one, bowl win
13-1 , conference champion, bowl win
10-3, beat P5 team, bowl win versus a team from the (in other's opinion) awesome THE AMERICAN!!!!
3-9, off year
8-5, playing a P5 team, beat a team from THE AMERICAN!!!!!!!, bowl win

Dan:

11-21, zero wins over non one-bid league teams, no tournament
17-16, zero wins over non one-bid league teams, no tournament
20-15, zero wins over non one-bid league teams, no tournament
currently 8-3, no wins over non one-bid league teams, everybody already saying "next year" (which is the same thing being said about Doc, BTW), no tournament is a certainty this year

is mediocre. And this is a double standard.

Hey, I remember what Marshall basketball used to be. I do. But some the whole "try harder than the next guy" idea and the "I can win with the WV all-stars" (MEMO: the coalfields have HALF the population they used to as people that care about their families have moved away to find work) idea, does not work. It just does not. We are playing Marshall's schedule with Concord's team.

I also remember what Marshall football used to be in the same era. Some of you have forgotten.

15-15, zero signature wins, no tournament. And that is acceptable, and the idea that it is acceptable is sad.

I see what he's saying.
Doc, being an outsider and a wvu guy, was not given much slack when it came to making the team better. In many ways, he did and has made them better...certainly better than Snyder did (and lord knows, we don't need to go into details about it).
When Doc and the team didn't look as good as they were expected to be (expected meaning, snap your fingers and your uniforms come on, not dropping any passes and every play is a first down) people began to grumble and find ways to discredit Doc as being a solid coach. It got so bad to the point that many just convinced themselves that he is a terrible coach...and began to use the records of opponents as leverage to justify this.
When Doc has a legitimate claim to something like, "the team is young" people feel that is not an excuse to be using and automatically ignore it (even if it is true).

Now, enter Dan...
Being a Marshall guy and having played for Marshall, everyone loves him. While many wanted his brother, they are totally cool with him instead (frankly, his brother probably woulda gone to the NBA anyway).
He goes out and gets people that are totally not what we're all used to seeing...smaller faster guys who shoot 3's...very European-like.
But, people say, "It's all part of his grand plan to make Marshall amazing!" Despite having a pretty terrible record.
But hey, "He's re-building, it takes time, be patient!!!!!"
So far, the basketball team is...better than before but honestly not to the level everyone really thought they should be.
However, instead of getting critical, people begin to do the opposite of Doc, they invent ways to give Dan a pass and shrug off the whole, "he's not a good coach" bit, despite having some evidence of it.
Also now, the whole, "we're a young team" is becoming more used to explain why our team is, in fact, not young but loses games.

Thing is, Doc and Dan really aren't that different, but perception of them, is night and day different.
Dan makes the conference finals and loses, Doc does the same thing, but one is considered an achievement and the other is considered a failure.
People forget Doc had MU in the conference title game in year...4? In football, with recruiting a whole class and everything, not easy to do. Dan got us there pretty quickly too, year 2, but one was considered a bust and the other considered an accomplishment. Forgetting that Dan's predecessor go us there as well...back when the conference was actually pretty tough. In fact, he had the most success of any coach for quite a while.

Why is this? Why is it that Dan gets more of a pass for something that he could actually do in faster time than what Doc has been doing? MU has always been in the hunt for the division in football. 2016 and like his first 2 years were really times when we weren't...but that's actually not a bad thing at all.
Dan got us to the finals 1 time and lost. Both coaches have been here since the conference was gutted.
So why does Dan get a mulligan? Is it because he's an MU guy? I'm starting to think it is...
Why else does one demand something be "more exciting" like the football team, despite winning, and accept "more exciting" as the norm for basketball despite losing?
Funny how MU fans complain about the "good ole boy network" yet that is exactly what they seem to be doing to their program coaches.

 

[TwolfHerdfan]

I see what you are saying Cali! And I believe you are correct in terms of expectations. My thought is this: A lot of this starts with the AD. Mike certainly has his detractors, but on the whole, has he improved the quality of our athletics programs? I say he has. Is he proactive & visible @ games, matches, meets? I say he has. Is the college experience of the student athlete better since MH arrived? That has to be a yes! Ask a ECU fan if they would have MH back as their AD tomorrow? I’m told “in a heartbeat”.
We can gripe about how long it has been since we went dancing (too long!) & we can gripe about how inconsistent the FB program has been since Doc arrived on the scene. BUT - the man has coached us to a 5-0 record in bowls, prospects for next year are good. How in Hamricks position do you make a change? You don’t. And as far as b-ball, I was just trying to say DD is the only person who has experienced MU basketball in its heyday. So, who better to try and re-create that mojo? He’s doing it with players that excel in his system (as you pointed out). Talent level is waay up (recruiting looks even better). So, if DD decides to work another 5 years, am I willing to watch him work that D’Antono magic? You bet.
If the late 60’s can become the roaring 20’s.....oh yeah, I’m in.

Interesting comment about MH and ECU. Most of their fans that I have heard or read, that post on various boards blame Mike for the bad coaching hires that destroyed their program. I have a best friend who grew up in Huntington, got his BA at MU and MA at ECU, currently lives in High Point. He says most down there have no love for Hammy.

 

[The Real SamC]

What All4TheHerd says about Doc and Dan re WVU/MU is 100% correct. To which I will add that it is also personality based.

Doc is pretty reserved, especially for a sports coach. He keeps a lot of stuff inside. After losses he does not say much. He really never builds up his wins, and he never builds up his recruits, and is just a low key person overall.

Dan is naturally outgoing. He is a born salesman. His standard line is "work harder" and "recruit West Virginia". He hypes everything and everyone. Work harder can work. In public high schools where it is just the boys who happened to be born in your town and you create a special atmosphere where your kids really value basketball and put more time into it than the next town over. It has no application in college where everybody is working as hard as they can and talent matters. As to the West Virginia thing, it is a nice story, but the blunt facts are that WV produces a couple of DI players per year. Not a team full. It would be grand if Marshall really could have an all/most WVian/tri-state team and shock the world. But it is not real.

 

[Sash19]

Interesting comment about MH and ECU. Most of their fans that I have heard or read, that post on various boards blame Mike for the bad coaching hires that destroyed their program. I have a best friend who grew up in Huntington, got his BA at MU and MA at ECU, currently lives in High Point. He says most down there have no love for Hammy.

I have heard this is the case at ECU and UNLV.

 

[All4TheHerd]

Interesting comment about MH and ECU. Most of their fans that I have heard or read, that post on various boards blame Mike for the bad coaching hires that destroyed their program. I have a best friend who grew up in Huntington, got his BA at MU and MA at ECU, currently lives in High Point. He says most down there have no love for Hammy.

BAd coaching hires that destroyed their program...

It's been, what? 10-15 years since he was there?
Their programs are destroyed because they're a crap school. They can hate on Hammy all they want, it's not going to change the fact that ECU is god awful right now and it has nothing to do with him.

 

[All4TheHerd]

What All4TheHerd says about Doc and Dan re WVU/MU is 100% correct. To which I will add that it is also personality based.

Doc is pretty reserved, especially for a sports coach. He keeps a lot of stuff inside. After losses he does not say much. He really never builds up his wins, and he never builds up his recruits, and is just a low key person overall.

Dan is naturally outgoing. He is a born salesman. His standard line is "work harder" and "recruit West Virginia". He hypes everything and everyone. Work harder can work. In public high schools where it is just the boys who happened to be born in your town and you create a special atmosphere where your kids really value basketball and put more time into it than the next town over. It has no application in college where everybody is working as hard as they can and talent matters. As to the West Virginia thing, it is a nice story, but the blunt facts are that WV produces a couple of DI players per year. Not a team full. It would be grand if Marshall really could have an all/most WVian/tri-state team and shock the world. But it is not real.

I think this is probably the biggest problem the fans have with Doc. He has the personality of a fried lobster while Dan is basically a golden retriever.

If Doc showed more of his personality and interests (fishing, hunting, art, poetry, etc) then maybe people would be able to see him as a human being. I think Doc's problem about his image is that he is very much "Doc Holliday the coach" not "Doc Holliday the person."
Doc is very much about being a coach, however, it's plaguing people's sympathies for him because while it is his job to be a coach, I think people tend to be much more harsh on him than they'd be if Dan had made the same mistake.
I won't hold it against Doc because of my job I can see him as both but for others, it really does make a bias exist, and not a good one either.

 

[Sean Hammond]

What All4TheHerd says about Doc and Dan re WVU/MU is 100% correct. To which I will add that it is also personality based.

Doc is pretty reserved, especially for a sports coach. He keeps a lot of stuff inside. After losses he does not say much. He really never builds up his wins, and he never builds up his recruits, and is just a low key person overall.

Dan is naturally outgoing. He is a born salesman. His standard line is "work harder" and "recruit West Virginia". He hypes everything and everyone. Work harder can work. In public high schools where it is just the boys who happened to be born in your town and you create a special atmosphere where your kids really value basketball and put more time into it than the next town over. It has no application in college where everybody is working as hard as they can and talent matters. As to the West Virginia thing, it is a nice story, but the blunt facts are that WV produces a couple of DI players per year. Not a team full. It would be grand if Marshall really could have an all/most WVian/tri-state team and shock the world. But it is not real.

I think you’re 100% correct in what you say about how different Doc & Dan answer questions and interact with the media and that has a lot to do with the love affair with Dan. Dan is blunt, honest, very discriptive, kinda funny/quirky, and gives the impression that he isn’t hiding anything. Doc is Mr. Cliche, coach speak, doesn’t want to openly discuss/describe anything, etc. Pruett was much like Dan and I think people loved him for being that way. Marshall has a small community type of fan base. It isn’t wvu, NC St, Florida, etc. Dan is kind of a less vulgar version of Mike Leach. People love Mike Leach, but I’m not sure how his style would work at a major school where you need to be more buttoned up...and that’s how Doc is. I’ve heard behind the scenes Doc has a pretty good sense of humor and you’ll see him take that wall down every now & then when he’s talking about a player he really likes and he REALLY starts talking out of the side of his mouth and lets a few cuss words slip. I honestly think people would love him if he’d let more of that show.

As far us having too many WV players, I couldn’t disagree more. We’ve got 5 on scholarship on our roster and only 1 isn’t currently contributing at a high level. I wouldn’t mind also having Chase Harler (WVU). I wish we could have had Luke Frampton (Davidson) and Chase Johnson (Florida). Could have used Nathan Adrien (wvu) last year. Chase Feiler (Florida Gulf Coast) would have been a great player here...same as Chase Fischer (Wake Forest/BYU). Tyrone Goard would have been a decent player here if he wasn’t a head case. What about Grantham (Clemson)? Levi Cook will add a nice presence to our team next season. There’s a couple players currently at Fairmont who could be coming here, but if wvu offers, they’ll be going there. Should we not go after them? There’s also a 6’9 kid who could develop into a Patrick Patterson type of player at Chapmanville. Should we not go after him? Logan has a kid who has an offer from us and wvu. Should we not go after him? John Beilein made a trip to WV to see Jarrod West in person...but since he’s from WV and he plays at Marshall, I guess he isnt good?

Our problem isn’t that we have a Jon Elmore, CJ Burks, Rondale Watson, & Jarrod West. Our problem wasn’t that we had Stevie Browning. Our problem isn’t that we’re getting Jeremy Dillon...and hopefully some of the guys I mentioned above. We’re going to have 3-5 WV guys on the roster, sprinkled with a few guys from OH/VA, and a few guys from other areas (FL, GA, NC, overseas, etc). We can definitely win with that. Some of our past rosters could have used more WV guys.

 

[TwolfHerdfan]

BAd coaching hires that destroyed their program...

It's been, what? 10-15 years since he was there?
Their programs are destroyed because they're a crap school. They can hate on Hammy all they want, it's not going to change the fact that ECU is god awful right now and it has nothing to do with him.

Good gracious - try to comprehend what is being typed. Of course it has nothing to do with the present. It was about his hiring of Steve Logan and some other coaches while he was there. Now, go take a Midol and simmer down. And in actuality, they are classified as a national university, where we are a regional university.