Horrible...

[GoHerdMarshallYes]

I agreed with plenty when Doc lost to Charlotte. People cite that as a reason to fire him, at least spout he's not a good coach.
Understandable that was a bone headed game and horribly played on all fronts.

What do you call this?

'The Thundering Herd, who scored a season-low 21 second-half points, led by as many as 19 points in the first half and had a 55-45 lead with 11 minutes to play. They shot just 2 of 13 from the field the rest of the way as Western Kentucky scored 19 of the final 25 points.'

I couldn't imagine the excitement for the last 8 minutes of the game and we score a whopping 2 points...and it seems MU fans are content with "gosh darn excitement" over...you know, winning.

 

[extragreen]

As I've said before, both programs are no better than mediocre.

 

[Marine03]

We Are a Soccer school, period.

 

[GreenDuke]

The players need to play better.

 

[Herd-nificent]

2nd half they looked like nobody knew what to do. Just pass the ball back an forth and dribble. Western is a good team, but how do you give up a 19 point lead and lose with them going away. If they game had lasted another 5 minutes it would have been even worse.

Somebody should develop a game plan for this team. They can't just go out on the floor and win on there own against a deceit them.

 

[Tim Hensley]

I am about ready to concede that this is a rebuilding year. Didn't feel that way watching them early on in practice

We are very talented but still very young. Lots of freshmen mistakes being made -- some of them by upper classmen.

Too many turnovers. Just no chemistry and the four position, especially, has no consistency. This is really affecting Andy's game, as I have seen how slick he can pass.

Iran and Goran must quit putting the ball on the floor and go straight up to the basket when they catch it.. I see Danny and Cline work with them on that everyday in practice!

Immaturity and work ethics are trying Danny's patience. If some of them don't immediately grow up or put forth some extra effort, they may not be here much longer...

Iran really got hacked in the last minute and nothing was called It could have made the difference in the game. Still there is no excuse for blowing the 19-point lead we had in the first half!

A year of seasoning will make all the difference in the world.

While leaving the arena tonight, I congratulated the WKU fans. I told them that they may win again Saturday night. but asked: "Can you beat us in the tournament?" . .

 

[GoHerdMarshallYes]

Somebody should develop a game plan for this team. They can't just go out on the floor and win on there own against a deceit them.

You mean like...a head coach?

 

[5150]

I am about ready to concede that this is a rebuilding year. Didn't feel that way watching them early on in practice

We are very talented but still very young. Lots of freshmen mistakes being made -- some of them by upper classmen.

Too many turnovers. Just no chemistry and the four position, especially, has no consistency. This is really affecting Andy's game, as I have seen how slick he can pass.

Iran and Goran must quit putting the ball on the floor and go straight up to the basket when they catch it.. I see Danny and Cline work with them on that everyday in practice!

Immaturity and work ethics are trying Danny's patience. If some of them don't immediately grow up or put forth some extra effort, they may not be here much longer...

Iran really got hacked in the last minute and nothing was called It could have made the difference in the game. Still there is no excuse for blowing the 19-point lead we had in the first half!

A year of seasoning will make all the difference in the world.

While leaving the arena tonight, I congratulated the WKU fans. I told them that they may win again Saturday night. but asked: "Can you beat us in the tournament?" . .

How many turnovers, missed shots, and fouls did George have in a 5 min span? A bunch!

 

[BisonPa]

Watch the replay. Iran got blocked, not hacked. If you continue with the replay, just a few plays later Iran takes out their guy going for a layup and was called a jump ball. Their coach nearly got called for a technical which could have changed the game.

 

[5150]

Watch the replay. Iran got blocked, not hacked. If you continue with the replay, just a few plays later Iran takes out their guy going for a layup and was called a jump ball. Their coach nearly got called for a technical which could have changed the game.

that jump ball call was a make-up call imo

 

[W-S HerdFan]

Agree with the above on all counts. That was a watershed moment for this season. It may send us on a lengthy losing streak, considering who we have coming up. Disappointed to say the least! Go Herd

 

[5150]

You mean like...a head coach?

Our team looked real bad the last 10 min of the game. George cost us badly and why is Williams not on the floor more. He is a Jr and one of your most experienced players. I am a huge Dan fan but our team looks totally lost right now.

 

[herdalicious]

We Are a Soccer school, period.

We'll see after this spring. I maintain we are a Softball school, and I hope the girls will come through for me again this year.

 

[The Real SamC]

About on time. After months of delusion about THIS season, we now move on to the easy excuses and delusions about “rebuilding” and “youth” and other such nonsense. Just wait until next year.

Truth is that this team is fairly young relative to recent MU teams, although not particularly so by CUSA or national standards. It also is fundamentally not very talented. Young over-their-heads-in-DivIs grow up to be older over-their-heads-in-DivIs. Tee-shirts, slogans, retro repaints of the floor, and so on won’t change that.

 

[herdalicious]

easy excuses and delusions about “rebuilding” and “youth” and other such nonsense

Seniors: 0
Juniors: 3
Sophomores: 2
Freshmen: 6

 

[Herd-nificent]

Now look at how many are reshirt players (extra year of practice with the team) and we are not so "young" as we make excuses to be.

I would just put Jansson in the game and leave him in. Let him work out his problems.

 

[MarshallManiac]

Seniors: 0
Juniors: 3
Sophomores: 2
Freshmen: 6

Ouch...facts are hard.

 

[MarshallManiac]

About on time. After months of delusion about THIS season, we now move on to the easy excuses and delusions about “rebuilding” and “youth” and other such nonsense. Just wait until next year.

Truth is that this team is fairly young relative to recent MU teams, although not particularly so by CUSA or national standards. It also is fundamentally not very talented. Young over-their-heads-in-DivIs grow up to be older over-their-heads-in-DivIs. Tee-shirts, slogans, retro repaints of the floor, and so on won’t change that.

I mean...they are not good...but haven't they already surpassed your expectations? Didn't you predict something like 6 wins?

 

[herdfella]

My observation is that there is a power struggle between players as to who is going to be the guy. The first half was a thing of beauty because they actually ran some semblance of an offense and took advantage of the size advantage down low. For whatever reason, the guards decided at halftime that they needed "theirs". Unfortunately, none of our guards can shoot outside of 7-10 foot consistently. What I can't figure out is why none of the coaches don't lose their damn mind when they are watching it unfold.

 

[The Real SamC]

Seniors: 0
Juniors: 3
Sophomores: 2
Freshmen: 6

Gonzaga:
Sr - 3
Jr - 1
So - 3
Fr - 5

Baylor:
Sr - 2
Jr - 1
So - 7
Fr - 1

Kansas:
Sr - 3
Jr - 3
So - 4
Fr - 5

SD State:
Sr - 3
Jr - 3
So - 6
Fr - 3

Louisville:
Sr - 3
Jr - 4
So - 0
Fr - 7

Florida State:
Sr - 1
Jr - 6
So - 5
Fr - 3

Dayton:
Sr - 2
Jr - 6
So - 4
Fr - 7

Duke:
Sr - 3
Jr - 3
So - 2
Fr - 6

Kentucky:
Sr - 0
Jr - 2
So - 4
Fr - 6

WVU:
Sr - 3
Jr - 2
So - 5
Fr - 4

North Texas (beat us)
Sr - 3
Jr - 7
So - 2
Fr - 3

UAB (beat us)
Sr - 2
Jr - 3
So - 4
Fr - 5

UNCC (beat us)
Sr - 0 (technically 2 grad transfers are “seniors
Jr - 2
So - 4
Fr - 6

WKU (beat us)
Sr - 3
Jr -3
So - 1
Fr - 4

I get it. Everybody wants to now buy into the “rebuilding year” meme. We are “young” and “the future is bright” and other such horses**t. Fact is, yes, these players are young. And untalented. In a couple of years they won’t be young any more.

 

[whf2]

Who's fault is it that we have the class bread down we do? The distribution of class is probably the second most important issue in a sustainable winning program. Only those getting 4 and 5 rated recruits are going to sustain winning without a distributed class structure.

 

[W-S HerdFan]

riflearm2 and The Real SamC like this.

OMG - It's the sign of a coming apocalypse!! Cue the 4 horsemen and the devil hisself is coming up outta da ground.

The likelihood of these 2 on the same side of any issue related to Marshall sports is so rare, I felt that it must be highlighted!

A couple of things from reviewing Sam's list:
The only other school on the list with 0 seniors is, you guessed it - UK. Now, everyone knows Coach Cal never has any seniors on his roster, so let's set that one aside. #2 - The lack of seniors on this years team (Sustic left the team) should not be a surprise to anyone! We all knew there was going to be a years gap between Elmore, CJ & Rondale and West, Williams, George & Byers. Why is everyone just now realizing it? #3 Coach DD doesn't like to go JUCO anymore than he has to. Other than Mikel and Sustic, Dan really hasn't brought in transfers. He believes in recruiting kids out od H.S. and letting them develop over time.
And if this is a rebuilding year, then so be it. I'm sticking with these guys thick or thin.

 

[herdalicious]

Kentucky:
Sr - 0
Jr - 2
So - 4
Fr - 6

herdalicious has left this conversation

 

[muthed]

I mean...they are not good...but haven't they already surpassed your expectations? Didn't you predict something like 6 wins?

Sam actually predicted less than 10 wins. We will surely achieve 10, and more, but then he'll change to some other rant about underachiement, mediocrity, or the like. He just can't seem to equate what he says about the bball program also applies to his beloved fball program

 

[The Real SamC]

We all knew there was going to be a years gap between Elmore, CJ & Rondale and West, Williams, George & Byers.

We did? Then why have you been posting delusional predictions about this team, and ridiculing those who dare see it for what it is, for months?

Why is everyone just now realizing it?

Self-delusion? Super-fan green colored glasses? Acceptance of mediocrity and refusing to admit that, so you call mediocrity “achievement”?

I, for one, and there are plenty of others, saw this team for what it was on day one.

However, with several of our fellow bottom dwellers coming up, I have no doubt that, along with gloating about winning a bet between this team being merely crap, and not crap, crap, crap, the delusional talk will resume about having “turned a corner” and “maturing” and other such nonsense.

 

[GoHerdMarshallYes]

What I can't figure out is why none of the coaches don't lose their damn mind when they are watching it unfold.

Because people don't seem willing to hold them accountable.
Dan as the head coach, doesn't have half a dozen position coaches and coordinators talking to his players in-between court time. They huddle around him and he speaks to all of them directly. He draws up plays and makes the adjustments himself. Its his job to communicate this to his team.
Last night showed he is heroically bad at it.

 

[W-S HerdFan]

F 0 Christian Thieneman 6 ft 5 in (1.96 m) 215 lb (98 kg) RS Jr
G 1 Taevion Kinsey 6 ft 5 in (1.96 m) 177 lb (80 kg) Fr
F 2 Iran Bennett 6 ft 9 in (2.06 m) 350 lb (159 kg) RS Fr
3 Jannson Williams 6 ft 9 in (2.06 m) 215 lb (98 kg) RS So
G 4 DeAundra Murphy (W) 6 ft 3 in (1.91 m) 169 lb (77 kg) Fr
G/F 5 Jeremy Dillon 6 ft 5 in (1.96 m) 198 lb (90 kg) Fr
G 11 Luke Thomas (W) 6 ft 0 in (1.83 m) 176 lb (80 kg) Fr
F 12 Ante Šustić 6 ft 10 in (2.08 m) 230 lb (104 kg) Jr
G 13 Jarrod West 5 ft 11 in (1.8 m) 185 lb (84 kg) So
G 14 C.J. Burks 6 ft 4 in (1.93 m) 185 lb (84 kg) RS Sr
F 21 Darius George 6 ft 7 in (2.01 m) 215 lb (98 kg) So
G 23 Rondale Watson 6 ft 4 in (1.93 m) 187 lb (85 kg) RS Sr
F 24 Cam Brooks-Harris 6 ft 6 in (1.98 m) 170 lb (77 kg) Fr
G 25 Wilhelm von Arndt (W) 6 ft 0 in (1.83 m) 175 lb (79 kg) Fr
F 31 Mikel Beyers 6 ft 8 in (2.03 m) 215 lb (98 kg) So
G 33 Jon Elmore 6 ft 3 in (1.91 m) 187 lb (85 kg) Sr

Sam - sometimes I question your ability to comprehend english. Other times I am certain you are just here to entertain. I made it easy for you this time. The only Juniors on last years team were Thieneman and Sustic. Thieneman either graduated or went somewhere else, can't remember. Sustic started the year as the only returning senior but quit after it became obvious he wasn't going to see the floor. So, there were 0 juniors on last year's team that were on the roster to start CUSA play. Why is that some startling mystery to you? No other program (except for UK, already discussed) in Div I fields a team w/o any seniors. I believe we are the 4th youngest out of all 350 teams in Div I basketball.

 

[The Real SamC]

So now you admit that you were wrong with all of the delusional talk about this team’s prospects, wrong to ridicule those of us who had an honest and realistic understanding of just what it is, and now wish to apologize?

Fine.

Anyway, if you have a penchant for cutting and pasting long articles and then claiming they refute something I have said. This doesn’t. I said this team was young, and bad; you cut and pasted last year’s roster. OK?

This team is young, and untalented. In a couple of years it will not be young, just untalented.

And, as OTHER POSTERS have rightly pointed out, not recruiting the team into a position where you have nobody in a particular class (unless you are playing the one-and-done deal) is on the HC.

 

[TwolfHerdfan]

I am about ready to concede that this is a rebuilding year. Didn't feel that way watching them early on in practice

We are very talented but still very young. Lots of freshmen mistakes being made -- some of them by upper classmen.

Too many turnovers. Just no chemistry and the four position, especially, has no consistency. This is really affecting Andy's game, as I have seen how slick he can pass.

Iran and Goran must quit putting the ball on the floor and go straight up to the basket when they catch it.. I see Danny and Cline work with them on that everyday in practice!

Immaturity and work ethics are trying Danny's patience. If some of them don't immediately grow up or put forth some extra effort, they may not be here much longer...

Iran really got hacked in the last minute and nothing was called It could have made the difference in the game. Still there is no excuse for blowing the 19-point lead we had in the first half!

A year of seasoning will make all the difference in the world.

While leaving the arena tonight, I congratulated the WKU fans. I told them that they may win again Saturday night. but asked: "Can you beat us in the tournament?" . .

With all due respect Tim. How could anyone not realize this year would be a rebuilding year? Practice is just that, practice.
Waiting for 20-21.

 

[muthed]

Sam, I'll agree with you on the recruiting aspect. Would you agree that's the same situation we are in with regards to our quarterback situation?

 

[W-S HerdFan]

So now you admit that you were wrong with all of the delusional talk about this team’s prospects, wrong to ridicule those of us who had an honest and realistic understanding of just what it is, and now wish to apologize?

Fine.

Anyway, if you have a penchant for cutting and pasting long articles and then claiming they refute something I have said. This doesn’t. I said this team was young, and bad; you cut and pasted last year’s roster. OK?

This team is young, and untalented. In a couple of years it will not be young, just untalented.

And, as OTHER POSTERS have rightly pointed out, not recruiting the team into a position where you have nobody in a particular class (unless you are playing the one-and-done deal) is on the HC.

I admit nothing. Wouldn't you agree? That's how you handle all subjects...

 

[Herd Insider]

I suggest that Marshall is a Women’s Tennis school.

 

[Herd Insider]

Between 10 and 12 wins.

 

[lexkyherdfan]

With all due respect Tim. How could anyone not realize this year would be a rebuilding year? Practice is just that, practice.
Waiting for 20-21.

we should have had players playing last year to step in for Elmore and Burkes this year. Too many recruiting misses over time.
We shouldn’t be “”young”. We aren’t getting one and done players so we should have balanced staff. We don’t. Whose fault is that?

I like some of the guys playing and think we will be much better in the future but I hate hearing next year is the year in either sport. W ended to worry about every year. Recruit and be ready to play. And best some good teams. And that goes for both sports.

 

[GoHerdMarshallYes]

we should have had players playing last year to step in for Elmore and Burkes this year. Too many recruiting misses over time.
We shouldn’t be “”young”. We aren’t getting one and done players so we should have balanced staff. We don’t. Whose fault is that?

I like some of the guys playing and think we will be much better in the future but I hate hearing next year is the year in either sport. W ended to worry about every year. Recruit and be ready to play. And best some good teams. And that goes for both sports.

Except with a complete meltdown in the 2nd half against a winnable team, generates maybe 1 thread (this one) about it.
Nothing else and endless excuses about youth, either coddling the players or refusing to blame the head coach.
The other will generate 1 in game thread and then about 3 dozen of the same "Fire Doc" and specific players being called out for sucking and not scoring 1000 pts per game.

You are 100% right, it SHOULD go for both sports but does not.

 

[marshallisqbu]

Between 10 and 12 wins.

So 11 then?

 

[marshallisqbu]

We are not very good and young. I’m not sure why this is a surprise. We have no one that can create shots for another player and we have no outside threats.

 

[W-S HerdFan]

We are not very good and young. I’m not sure why this is a surprise. We have no one that can create shots for another player and we have no outside threats.

Let’s see if I can type something of a critique on the HC : We graduated 3 way above-average players who could get to the basket in Elmore, Burks & Rondale. This year, the Herd is trying to change to a different type of team, and I love Jared West, he is pretty good getting in there but he doesn’t have enough length to be a game changer. Outside of him we have Kinsey, who is going to do nothing but get better, and then nobody. So, if we can’t get the ball inside (ala 2nd half WKU) , we aren’t going to be effective. Add to that we don’t shoot the 3 well.
Hey, it could be worse - we could have apathy, which judging by this thread is certainly not the case. Before we can get back home, good likelihood we go 0-3.....

 

[HerdFan54]

Can someone please tell me why Andy Taylor doesn’t shoot? You can’t win games with a point guard shooting 1-2 in the game...

 

[The Real SamC]

We are not very good and young. I’m not sure why this is a surprise.

I don’t know. Yet from before the first practice until just this week, post after post of delusional drivel about this team’s prospects, and ridicule for those who understood what it was and where it was going.

Sadly, rather than accept what is obvious, the delusion has now turned to some nutty theory about how these “not very good and young” players are going to become something other than not very good and slightly older players.