It is about time for the old WW2 Allies

[i am herdman]

Come together as one united front, in the name of civilized society, and really start to clean house with the radical Islam stuff. I really am to the point if takes a Harry S Truman moment to end the whole religion if necessary, then so be it.

I am talking a monumental collective effort of the civilized world(and that includes the Canadians, French, and normally otherwise vaginal type Euro nations) to come together and wipe this shi* out. Australians used to be ass kickers. We need them.

The religion is warped and has no place in modern society. Screw this peaceful religion stuff. It is not. Bout time for the islam followers to either change their religion and make it peaceful or we clean it up.

Enough is enough.

They start doing that crap here and otherwise good men are not going to sit back and let some ass kisser in the White House take care of things.

We need a leader to form a real coalition to do what it takes and if that is a big booomer bomb that turns shi* to glass then so be it. This will not end until they realize the world is modern and their religion and leaders are evil.

 

[herdit44]

maybe the catholics can get things kicked off again.

 

[i am herdman]

Originally posted by herdit44:
maybe the catholics can get things kicked off again.

Catholics, Baptist, Jews, Snake Handlers, whoever. When is the world going to get tired of this ?

 

[Raoul Duke MU]

I still subscribe to the Swordfish theory.
Posted from Rivals Mobile

 

[HRHF]

It may take turning the whole region into one big sheet of glass.

 

[i am herdman]

Originally posted by HRHF:
It may take turning the whole region into one big sheet of glass.

Might take putting that woman named Hillary in there to do it. She has huge balls. The men in this country have no balls. She would make the place a parking lot in order to not have to deal with it or take the risk of ruining her legacy. The men running this country now have no balls.
This post was edited on 1/7 3:30 PM by i am herdman

 

[HerdandHokies]

The insane part of Islam already thinks they're fighting a war for their religions survival. How much shit do you think we'd be in if the sane part of that 23% of the world population (most of which is not in the Middle East) thought that too? And were right?

 

[i am herdman]

Originally posted by HerdandHokies:
The insane part of Islam already thinks they're fighting a war for their religions survival. How much shit do you think we'd be in if the sane part of that 23% of the world population (most of which is not in the Middle East) thought that too? And were right?

Well, they need to clean their own mess up then. The Japs didn't stop until they realized the Emperor wasn't so powerful.

If they don't stop this stuff now there will be an ethnic cleansing starting in Europe. You want that? The French and Brits(among others) have a big problem on their hand. Europe has started two world wars. It is a powder keg ready to go.

 

[HerdandHokies]

Ethnic cleansing or religious persecution?

Thats pretty horrendously un-American.

Root out the extremists, the real threats, but waging a war on an entire religion is insane.

 

[ThunderCat98]

That's right. Just a few crazies ruining Islam for everyone . . .
Posted from Rivals Mobile

 

[raleighherdfan]

Originally posted by HerdandHokies:
Ethnic cleansing or religious persecution?

Thats pretty horrendously un-American.

Root out the extremists, the real threats, but waging a war on an entire religion is insane.

We are not allowed to root out the extremists either. When it is tried we here cries of " US occupation", unconstitutional wars, and get new presidents who pre announce to the world what our exit strategy will be no matter what the situation in order to appease the whiners.

This loser of President made a lot of big winded promises. Whom ever takes his seat will be inheriting major shit storms of epic proportion. My bet is Hillary secretly hopes something occurs that knocks her out of the race. Even an ego like hers doesn't want anything to do with all the crisis brewing worldwide.

 

[i am herdman]

Originally posted by HerdandHokies:
Ethnic cleansing or religious persecution?

Thats pretty horrendously un-American.

Root out the extremists, the real threats, but waging a war on an entire religion is insane.

All I am saying is this better get fixed or you better be ready for WW3. Might make Bosnia look like fist fight.


This post was edited on 1/7 6:32 PM by i am herdman

 

[HerdandHokies]

Who would we even be fighting in a WW3? Random Islamic extremist groups? As soon as they're powerful enough to control a state they're easy to take out. It's when they're small and mobile that we have trouble with them. That's true going back to any point in US history. We could topple every Islamic government in a couple weeks if we actually wanted to, but that'd be a stupid thing to do since (among so, so many other things) then the small groups that actually cause us problems would have even more room to be active.

 

[HerdandHokies]

Also anything you do to suppress Islam domestically is only going to super-radicalize radicals and radicalize normal people. Make them start meeting underground and radical ideas spread much more easily.

Look, nobody wants to say it, but stuff like this is going to happen. We can't stop it, and attempts to stop it end up affecting more lives than the original act ever did.

 

[i am herdman]

I hate to tell you.this they are already doing the underground stuff. They are here and plotting. Is your head that buried in the sand.

When they start doing what happened in Paris here will you then wake up?

We. They do it here people are going to kill them back. People are not.going to tolerate it here. We gave guns and ammo and lots of it. We t be call 911. The fight will be taken to the bad guys.
Posted from Rivals Mobile

 

[HerdandHokies]

No shit some of them are already underground. Now you want to drive ALL of them underground. Do you get why that's a stupid idea?

 

[Raoul Duke MU]

Originally posted by raleighherdfan:

We are not allowed to root out the extremists either. When it is tried we here cries of " US occupation", unconstitutional wars,

Re-writing history, Rufus?

I don't recall any real opposition to Afghanistan to do just as you said. Anyone with half a brain knows that is not why we invaded Iraq; Saddam, who didn't give a shit about Allah until he was going to meet the hangman, was a buffer against jihadists; don't confuse his very secular imperialism with Islamic terror.

 

[i am herdman]

Originally posted by HerdandHokies:
No shit some of them are already underground. Now you want to drive ALL of them underground. Do you get why that's a stupid idea?

And you want to do nothing and not call it for what it is. Nearly all of them have no loyal to us.

 

[HRHF]

Originally posted by Raoul Duke MU:

Originally posted by raleighherdfan:

We are not allowed to root out the extremists either. When it is tried we here cries of " US occupation", unconstitutional wars,

Re-writing history, Rufus?

I don't recall any real opposition to Afghanistan to do just as you said. Anyone with half a brain knows that is not why we invaded Iraq; Saddam, who didn't give a shit about Allah until he was going to meet the hangman, was a buffer against jihadists; don't confuse his very secular imperialism with Islamic terror.

Forget it. He's rolling.

 

[andy4theherd]

the problem with getting our "old WW2 Allies" back together is that there is no front to fight this war on. these guys have infiltrated every country on the planet and are just sitting there waiting for their turn...

and if the "moderate" Muslims that claim to be so appalled about these attacks would do something about it then i would give a sh!t about them being in the crossfire. instead, they sit by and allow their countries to harbor terrorists and look the other way while their next door neighbor is putting together IED's on the weekend...

 

[Raoul Duke MU]

Kill them all, let Allah sort them out.
Posted from Rivals Mobile

 

[ThunderCat98]

"Moderate muslim" is an oxymoron.
Posted from Rivals Mobile

 

[raleighherdfan]

Originally posted by Raoul Duke MU:

Originally posted by raleighherdfan:

We are not allowed to root out the extremists either. When it is tried we here cries of " US occupation", unconstitutional wars,

Re-writing history, Rufus?

I don't recall any real opposition to Afghanistan to do just as you said. Anyone with half a brain knows that is not why we invaded Iraq; Saddam, who didn't give a shit about Allah until he was going to meet the hangman, was a buffer against jihadists; don't confuse his very secular imperialism with Islamic terror.

That's why we are rolling out of Afghanistan right now....right Raoul????.......mission accomplished I guess. Obummer was publicly setting dates for quitting long ago.

How about turning loose prisoners back to their homeland--so they can fight us again? "Shut down Gitmo were the cries. NO real terrorists there!!!"

Facts are this has never been simply an "Iraq" issue when it comes to our troops operating overseas. Iraq was meant to be the shithole where the war (against jihad extremists) was going to be fought. Better there than on other western civilization's soil throughout the world.

Every time there is a discussion about "taking out an enemy", we get to listen to whiners like HR and HH claim we are making more terrorists. Doesn't matter what the action is. Iraq, Afghanistan, Timbuktu. Doesn't matter. And we always get to read your Monday morning quarterbacking about "Iraq! Iraq! Iraq!" Never fails.

 

[raleighherdfan]

Originally posted by andy4theherd:
the problem with getting our "old WW2 Allies" back together is that there is no front to fight this war on. these guys have infiltrated every country on the planet and are just sitting there waiting for their turn...

Which IMO was the real LONG TERM purpose we went into Iraq.....Iraq was where the BIGGER war on these degenerates was going to be brought in years to come. Unfortunately as most wars have occurred in modern history........Bureaucrats took over.

Water under the bridge now. We are quitting. That's what a majority of Americans do anyway when things get challenging. Quit and hope someone else takes care of it.

 

[Raoul Duke MU]

Thirteen goddamn years, Rufus. Taliban out power, OBL dead and shark food, thousands of dead goat fvxkers...what else do you want the US to do? Babysit Afghanistan for the next 100 years? Newsflash: it is a tribal nation, there will always be little pockets of assholishness. And we will continue firing rockets up asses as needed.

Gitmo isn't all terrorists. Many are Taliban fighters. That is a legitamite POW thing there. The real jihadiats? Joke is on the liberals, they are going even deeper underground in foreign prisons. Well played, Obama. Do a few get out who shouldn't? Sure. Same as we have kept a few we should be releasing.

Monday morning QBing? Is that what you and herdman do when you make up shit and claim W had a grand plan for Iraq to draw in jihadists to keep them off US soil? What utter bullshit. That line of crap was never heard until well after the Misssion Accomplished stunt. Let me ask you this: if that was the grand secret plan before the invasion, why did we lessen our chances of success by barring all Bathists from Iraqi government and military positions? You know, the secular guys who had experience and success running shit and quelling unrest in Iraq. Your argument makes it a choice of a) Raoul Duke believes W had a terrible plan and was a dumb mf'er, or b) Rufus believes W had a great plan and was a dumb mf'er. It doesn't say much for your argument when it still ends in dumb mf'er, which, if assuming you correct, it must. Give it up, you are full of it.

Fact: the majority of Americans, including the majority of so-called liberals, support killing the shit out of terrorists. The majority of Americans, including the majority of so-called conservatives, do not support starting wars for the sheer shit of it and to blow billions on nation-building.
Posted from Rivals Mobile

 

[i am herdman]

Originally posted by Raoul Duke MU:
Thirteen goddamn years, Rufus. Taliban out power, OBL dead and shark food, thousands of dead goat fvxkers...what else do you want the US to do? Babysit Afghanistan for the next 100 years? Newsflash: it is a tribal nation, there will always be little pockets of assholishness. And we will continue firing rockets up asses as needed.

Gitmo isn't all terrorists. Many are Taliban fighters. That is a legitamite POW thing there. The real jihadiats? Joke is on the liberals, they are going even deeper underground in foreign prisons. Well played, Obama. Do a few get out who shouldn't? Sure. Same as we have kept a few we should be releasing.

Monday morning QBing? Is that what you and herdman do when you make up shit and claim W had a grand plan for Iraq to draw in jihadists to keep them off US soil? What utter bullshit. That line of crap was never heard until well after the Misssion Accomplished stunt. Let me ask you this: if that was the grand secret plan before the invasion, why did we lessen our chances of success by barring all Bathists from Iraqi government and military positions? You know, the secular guys who had experience and success running shit and quelling unrest in Iraq. Your argument makes it a choice of a) Raoul Duke believes W had a terrible plan and was a dumb mf'er, or b) Rufus believes W had a great plan and was a dumb mf'er. It doesn't say much for your argument when it still ends in dumb mf'er, which, if assuming you correct, it must. Give it up, you are full of it.

Fact: the majority of Americans, including the majority of so-called liberals, support killing the shit out of terrorists. The majority of Americans, including the majority of so-called conservatives, do not support starting wars for the sheer shit of it and to blow billions on nation-building.


Posted from Rivals Mobile

It is absolutely true. Trust me. The military needed a place to fight them. Iraq was the battlefield of choice. I can list out reasons why if you want me to but you are not going to be open to it. You don't think people were advising Bush. First hint, sir we can choose to fight these people where we want to with our standing Army(generic for all services in this case) that was built to fight a conventional ground war against the Soviets or we can take this big 300 lb guerilla and chase these ass bags all over the world for the most part. You can't go attacking sovereign nation after sovereign nation looking for goat molestors all the time. Take a country over and they start coming in. Drain their resources and we can fight them with our big Army.

Remember what I said years ago, Fly Paper. Put it out and the flies come around and stick to it. Was Iraq perfect or was it the right idea. No and I don't know but I know why we went there.
This post was edited on 1/9 9:58 PM by i am herdman

 

[Raoul Duke MU]

I won't "trust you." Because it is not true.

If you told me that was the plan in Afghanistan, I could almost believe it. You know, the place we actually went and got the non-Jihadists on our side before we went in big.

Herdsman, your other big piece of bullshit is we went into Iraq to fight or contain Iran. When we ran out the Bathists we handed Iraq to the Shias...you know, same people as Iran. Which reversed the balance against Iran that Reagan built by supporting the Bathists.
Posted from Rivals Mobile

 

[i am herdman]

Originally posted by Raoul Duke MU:
I won't "trust you." Because it is not true.

If you told me that was the plan in Afghanistan, I could almost believe it. You know, the place we actually went and got the non-Jihadists on our side before we went in big.

Herdsman, your other big piece of bullshit is we went into Iraq to fight or contain Iran. When we ran out the Bathists we handed Iraq to the Shias...you know, same people as Iran. Which reversed the balance against Iran that Reagan built by supporting the Bathists.

Posted from Rivals Mobile

You are not thinking big enough. Afghanistan was one place to go get the Taliban. The numbnuts were all over the place. When we went into Iraq they came in there to fight. Fine, you are now taking on the 4th Infantry Division. Hard to send an Infantry division into 8 different countries.

Regardless of what people think there are only so many Navy Seals, Green Berets, and special ops to go around. We had to put a large military in somewhere to take these f'ers on.

Afghanistan was part of the plan but there was a bigger picture. I am telling you right now it was on the board for a long time.

 

[Raoul Duke MU]

Um, I do think big picture. That is why I am telling you that shit isn't true. The big picture of what was done proves it isn't true...or that W is the dumbest mf'er ever in the White House. Seriously.
Posted from Rivals Mobile

 

[raleighherdfan]

I know its hard to comprehend for some but US has been "rebuilding and/or building nations" since WW1. We almost single handedly rebuilt Japan after we nuked the hell out of them. We helped to rebuild 2/3rds of Europe following Germany's bombardment. The reason there is a NATO and a United Nations (despite that org being complete comedy) is because of US. So yes, WE ARE A NATION BUILDER on many, many levels.

You are worried about 13years Raoul? 13Years?? LMFAO. Name one country where we fought in during War time activity that we still don't have a military presence and demonstrate our "leadership" after MULTIPLE DECADES? Germany, Japan, Asian Pacific, Greece, France.......Should we pull out of there??? (Hell no) And of course this is what pisses liberals off the most. We are leaders and that's what LEADERS do....stay wherever they are needed.

Short sighted people seem to think the scale at which this was taken on should have been made good and finished within a single Presidents term...after all, you can win an entire war on your XBOX in a couple hours and still have time for mommy to cook breakfast and bring it to you in her basement before the voting polls close that afternoon. Anyone thinking this wasn't going to take a decade or longer to establish a new war front on terrorism and a longer term allie in the region really should have laid off the pipe and kept some brain cells in their youth. Instead the juveniles heard "mission accomplished", and immediately turned off the remainder of that speech and went back to playing video games thinking the work was all done because that's the way it happens for them when they read "GAME OVER" on their toy.

Bush's biggest mistake? Assuming that the majority of US citizens had an understanding that war is ugly, never easy, and rarely if ever is completely "finished". Assuming they had an attention span for longer than 2 mins and ability to read beyond a NYT bolded headline. Initial plans are never perfect and that smaller strategies change while keeping an eye on the bigger picture of what the vision was/ is. In this case, the vision being the US required to be a bigger part of that area of the world militarily because leaders there couldn't seem to keep there asses in line and their shit out of our backyard (Which was also exactly what he was saying from the very beginning of military action), ala European/Asian Pacific theatres of decades past.

IMO, these were the options facing an administration who had only been in office for 9 months at the time of 9-11 and believing we needed to be there: The Saudis couldn't/cant be trusted (they funded 9-11) but we still needed their oil, Pakistan protecting Bin Laden (couldn't be trusted--yes I think we knew where Bin Laden was not long after we learned he was responsible), Russia couldn't even succeed in Afghanistan (too difficult as an initial front because of the tribes and topography-deal with them more effectively after we get in the region--which we did), Syria and Iran too difficult to invade because of better state organization and internal control...vs.......a Tin pan dictator and military with an easy access country, the rest of the world hated a lot too, who could be taken over in two weeks with challenges nonetheless, in the middle of all these other asshole countries who would gladly shift their focus and efforts there instead of flying 767s into our cities buildings(Hell even the Clinton's experts said Iraq had WMDs.)........ding, ding, ding!!!! S. Hussein "bye-bye"/Iraq it is!!!!

Unfortunately in the end, we had a bunch of bureaucrats, and the blind sheep that vote for them, who decided it was more important to "fight" and then easily "quit" the same way we did during the Korean, Vietnam eras---which is ultimately why we are distrusted in many parts of that world. Thank goodness Obama, and peace loving hippies everywhere actually helped to reinforce that perception with unconditional, complete compassionate evacuation at a time when things were actually calming down and becoming more controlled in Iraq---when we were actually needed the most. Left a leadership vacuum that imploded the progress and trust that was indeed being established in Iraq the last few years. I know, I know...you don't believe it because the BBC didn't tell you Raoul. Oh well. So be it.

 

[i am herdman]

Exactly, Raleigh. Iraq was the winner of the sweepstakes.

 

[CockyHerd]

Iraq was the winner because W still had Daddy issues and Dick Vader knew there was money to be made.

 

[Raoul Duke MU]

Iraq wasn't even a problem until Bush I had James Baker hang April Glaspie out to dry and tell Saddam we had no position on his dispute with Kuwait. They were gassing Iranians for us. Awesome. We made Saddam, but then we fvcked him. Same as we did with OBL. But hey, I have people that don't know history telling me I don't see the big picture.

We rebuilt Japan to have a base to counter the Soviets, and then China in 1949 when they went Commie. Germany the same with the Soviets. Both were done after total and complete destruction and surrender. Nation building does not work and is a waste of money. Sixteen times in a century,with four successes: Japan and Germany (both beaten down to nothing), Panama, and Grenada (lol). The other 12? Failures. Granted, Japan and Germany had huge and prolonged influxes of American troops, but again that was to counter the frigging USSR. The goat fvckers are not the USSR (which was stupid powerful and worth the investment) and Muslims in general are not supportive of being occupied by conquering infidels. Yet you think we had a grand plan. OK.

As eloquently stated by Minxin Pei, there are three variables for nation building to work. You tell me how the hell these were obtainable in Iraq and Afghanistan;

1. The internal characteristics of the nation, including lack of internal fractures (strike one for Afghanistan and the artificialnation of Iraq), and state capacity (nonexistent in Afghanistan, neutered in Iraq by displacing the Baathists, there is that dumb MF'r Bush again). MacArthur kept the Jap bureaucrats in place, you ever wonder why?

2. Convergence of interests of both the outside power and target nation. West Germany and Japan were scared shitless of outside threats by Communists. Muslims give zero fvcks for anything resembling our interests.

3. Commitment to self-sustaining economic development in the target nation. Germany was an industrial power before WWII. Japan was also a great industrial nation. Iraq? One product. Afghanistan? The only thing they export is opium and Islamic terror.

This grand plan you claim? Doomed to failure, and a massive waste of blood and treasure. If you told me the goal was just to kill Muslims, I'd be down for that. But it wasn't. Neocons strongly believe every barbarian has a freedom-loving, capitalist American inside just waiting to be unleashed. That shit is not true, and pure arrogance to believe.

Thirteen years hell, we spent nineteen trying nation-building in Haiti. Still an undemocratic shithole. You think a few more years would fix Afghanistan? Or convince Iraqi Shias, Sunnis, and Kurds to play nice? Not a chance in hell.

This post was edited on 1/13 10:07 PM by Raoul Duke MU

 

[Raoul Duke MU]

Originally posted by raleighherdfan:

Left a leadership vacuum that imploded the progress and trust that was indeed being established in Iraq the last few years.

A vacuum, like the one we created by taking out every Baathist? Trust with whom? The Shias we installed? Do you even understand the underlying issues in Iraq? Or Afghanistan?

 

[CockyHerd]

Originally posted by Raoul Duke MU:
Iraq wasn't even a problem until Bush I had James Baker hang April Glaspie out to dry and tell Saddam we had no position on his dispute with Kuwait. They were gassing Iranians for us. Awesome. We made Saddam, but then we fvcked him. Same as we did with OBL. But hey, I have people that don't know history telling me I don't see the big picture.

We rebuilt Japan to have a base to counter the Soviets, and then China in 1949 when they went Commie. Germany the same with the Soviets. Both were done after total and complete destruction and surrender. Nation building does not work and is a waste of money. Sixteen times in a century,with four successes: Japan and Germany (both beaten down to nothing), Panama, and Grenada (lol). The other 12? Failures. Granted, Japan and Germany had huge and prolonged influxes of American troops, but again that was to counter the frigging USSR. The goat fvckers are not the USSR (which was stupid powerful and worth the investment) and Muslims in general are not supportive of being occupied by conquering infidels. Yet you think we had a grand plan. OK.

As eloquently stated by Minxin Pei, there are three variables for nation building to work. You tell me how the hell these were obtainable in Iraq and Afghanistan;

1. The internal characteristics of the nation, including lack of internal fractures (strike one for Afghanistan and the artificialnation of Iraq), and state capacity (nonexistent in Afghanistan, neutered in Iraq by displacing the Baathists, there is that dumb MF'r Bush again). MacArthur kept the Jap bureaucrats in place, you ever wonder why?

2. Convergence of interests of both the outside power and target nation. West Germany and Japan were scared shitless of outside threats by Communists. Muslims give zero fvcks for anything resembling our interests.

3. Commitment to self-sustaining economic development in the target nation. Germany was an industrial power before WWII. Japan was also a great industrial nation. Iraq? One product. Afghanistan? The only thing they export is opium and Islamic terror.

This grand plan you claim? Doomed to failure, and a massive waste of blood and treasure. If you told me the goal was just to kill Muslims, I'd be down for that. But it wasn't. Neocons strongly believe every barbarian has a freedom-loving, capitalist American inside just waiting to be unleashed. That shit is not true, and pure arrogance to believe.

Thirteen years hell, we spent nineteen trying nation-building in Haiti. Still an undemocratic shithole. You think a few more years would fix Afghanistan? Or convince Iraqi Shias, Sunnis, and Kurds to play nice? Not a chance in hell.


This post was edited on 1/13 10:07 PM by Raoul Duke MU

Great Post! Agree 100%.........

Maybe Lindsey Graham (Scarlett O'Hara) would like to send some of his family to Iraq/Afghanistan?

 

[raleighherdfan]

Originally posted by CockyHerd:
Iraq was the winner because W still had Daddy issues and Dick Vader knew there was money to be made.

Wow. Thanks for that clarification.

 

[raleighherdfan]

We rebuilt Japan to have a base to counter the Soviets, and then China in 1949 when they went Commie. Germany the same with the Soviets. Both were done after total and complete destruction and surrender.... but again that was to counter the frigging USSR.


Not much difference in what I described about Iraq. Most of Iraq had been destroyed simply by Hussein himself. Most of those fighting us in Iraq were insurgents. Not the Iraqi people themselves. Outside of Fallujah there wasn't an Iraqi army presence. And again, as I suggested. We needed a place to establish a front to the entire war on terror in that region (not just invading Iraq simply to invade Iraq). Lets also remember. We didn't have drone capabilities then on the scale we do now. There was no....just fly a drone in and take them out in 2001... We needed bases to operate. We needed access. We needed a place to bring them in to. Which...we....did. Insurgent fighters were the majority fighting. Not Iraqis.

Commitment to self-sustaining economic development in the target nation....Iraq?

Oil production and distribution to world markets. Just stick with the lefty cries...."NO blood for oil!!" theme here. Oil production capabilities and rebuilding that interior was a part of this. And yes, Iraqis have that interest and commitment at mind. Even cocky stumbled onto this with his ignorance... If evil Dick Cheney could "profit" from this war (lmfao) then you can bet your ass off, the new govt knew they could too. Economics anyone? Anyone?

Neocons strongly believe every barbarian has a freedom-loving, capitalist American inside just waiting to be unleashed. That shit is not true, and pure arrogance to believe.

Hyperbole much? No one thinks every muslim believes in capitalist freedom. Just ask the liberals on this board. They don't even believe in the opportunities freedom and capitalism can create and in most cases choose to ignore and simply loath the success it has given this country. Why would I assume every uneducated muslim would believe it's potential?

Having worked with many immigrants in their businesses in the past (that happen to be from muslim countries and practice muslim faith) I can tell you their desire for freedom and opportunity does exist over there. To make the assertion that all are barbarian or terrorist is just as dishonest and arrogant.

nation-building in Haiti....

WTF did you think was going to happen the minute Hollywood Leftist like Shawn Penn took over that effort? Seriously? Its why I referenced Nato and UN being jokes when it comes to these efforts. Haiti as an example of committed nation building?

 

[i am herdman]

Situation: 9/11 attacks, 3,000 dead on American Soil


POTUS as Commander In Chief: Gather the NSA, CIA, FBI, and DOD to prepare for response and war.

NSA gathers intelligence, CIA prepares for covert action overseas, FBI handles on soil intelligence and law enforcement.

Direct order from POTUS to DOD: Prepare assessment, short term battle plan, and long term battle plan.

DOD To POTUS(and this is the short version):

MR POTUS: Short terms plan. Afghanistan: First response is Tier 1 units on ground along with CIA para military. US Speical Operations forces will secure major airport and being clandestine operations immediately. Conventional ground forces in place within days.

Mainly light infantry, special operation forces, attack aircraft to support ground troops, support ground elements, and clandestine operations. First, remove Talban from power while attacking Al Qeada terror network in remote locations. Taliban falls in 60 days or less.

MR POTUS, we do not want our heavy elements there for this type battle plan. The terror network is regional if not worldwide. Afghanistan is only part of the plan.

POTUS: What are the solutions?

MR POTUS, we only have so many special operation forces. We would be looking at inserting them into 3-5 countries, A)We do not have the resources B)That will only take out small portion of the networks C)We do not know what that will do politically

POTUS: What are my choices?

MR POTUS, It would be easier and logistically better if we could A)Fight in one location while maintaining smaller operations in Afghanistan B)We could fight on our terms with our larger forces and heavier conventional forces.

POTUS: How do we do that?

MR POTUS, if they were all in on country that would help. That way we dictate the terms of battle.

POTUS(to all national security agencies): Where could this happen?

Group Answer: Iraq
------------------

That my friends, is how history is made.

 

[Raoul Duke MU]

Originally posted by raleighherdfan:

Most of Iraq had been destroyed simply by Hussein himself.

Incorrect.



Oil production and distribution to world markets.

Iraq was already an oil producer. This alone did not make it a self-sustaining economy, due to the lack of toal jobs. Unemployment was ripe with just an oil economy.



Hyperbole much?

Not really. That is practically half the neocon theory. The other half is they will then love us.




WTF did you think was going to happen the minute Hollywood Leftist like Shawn Penn took over that effort?

What was I saying about you being ignorant of history? I wasn't aware Sean Penn was around in 1915, when the American occupation/nation building of Haiti began.