That may be true considering that the Monongalia County residents, the ones that paid for Mon County Ball Park are WV citizens. I challenge you Mister "Real SamC" to provide a link that shows that the WV State Legislature designated a single cent toward building that facility, as you insist on believing. And I fully expect you to dodge the challenge, as usual.
Marshall BASEBALL
- Thread starter CarolinaHerdzilla
- Start date
That may be true considering that the Monongalia County residents, the ones that paid for Mon County Ball Park are WV citizens. I challenge you Mister "Real SamC" to provide a link that shows that the WV State Legislature designated a single cent toward building that facility, as you insist on believing. And I fully expect you to dodge the challenge, as usual.
So, out of curiosity Sam...how many board members come to defend YOU?
We all know the answer of course....but I am curious to see how you perceive yourself.
Vitriol vs. Reality.
You never disappoint.
Sam can't do that, because they didn't put even one cent toward it. The state also didn't put one cent toward building the basketball practice facility, the football stadium improvements, the new scoreboards, or the improvements to the Coliseum. All of those things were paid for by donors and by athletic unit funds internally generated.
It is sort of a source of pride there that they don't have their hands out for state money to prop up their athletic program. WVU just completed a massive fund raising project that resulted in their donors and alumni donating $1.1 billion for the school. Fairmont State, on the other hand, does get a dole from the state. Unfortunately, our donors are not nearly as generous. We did have a woman step forward and buy new uniforms for the cheerleaders, but they suck. I liked the old ones better.
John Seamon..I see your posts as being very well thought out with PROVEN FACTS to support your statements. Pay little attention to Sad Sam...he gets little loving at home and he is pissed off at the World. I welcome you aboard anytime. Since SHUE passed a few weeks ago..he has selected you to receive his hate.
HerdZilla22 (Gary Sweeney) in Charlotte via Mt. Hope, WV.
Good Lord.
OK, basic government finance.
A TIF is a form of tax redirection. It works like this:
An unimproved property generates almost no taxes. The STATE OF WEST VIRGINIA (not Monongalia county) creates a "TIF District" and says that the taxes due THE STATE OF WEST VIRGINIA inside said district will go, rather than into the general revenue, to pay off a loan used to improve the property, since an improved property generates far more in taxes.
This has worked in lots of places.
Now, of course we come to the WVU ballpark. It pays no taxes. It belongs to the government. Governments do not pay taxes. So what WVU/Monongalia county did was take an UNRELATED retail project and use the taxes generated there to pay for a WVU ballpark.
So if Concord College took all the sales tax from a Go Mart in Mineral Wells for 5 years and built a golf course, it and not WV taxpayers paid for it?
Idiotic.
As to a link, it is in the budget of the state of West Virginia, where the state will take in less money, because all of the money from a strip mall will be used to build a ballpark.
Less road, less schools, less hospitals. And that is fine, but why live in delusion? Why is the "self-supporting" lie so important, when USA Today laughs at it.
OK, basic government finance.
A TIF is a form of tax redirection. It works like this:
An unimproved property generates almost no taxes. The STATE OF WEST VIRGINIA (not Monongalia county) creates a "TIF District" and says that the taxes due THE STATE OF WEST VIRGINIA inside said district will go, rather than into the general revenue, to pay off a loan used to improve the property, since an improved property generates far more in taxes.
This has worked in lots of places.
Now, of course we come to the WVU ballpark. It pays no taxes. It belongs to the government. Governments do not pay taxes. So what WVU/Monongalia county did was take an UNRELATED retail project and use the taxes generated there to pay for a WVU ballpark.
So if Concord College took all the sales tax from a Go Mart in Mineral Wells for 5 years and built a golf course, it and not WV taxpayers paid for it?
Idiotic.
As to a link, it is in the budget of the state of West Virginia, where the state will take in less money, because all of the money from a strip mall will be used to build a ballpark.
Less road, less schools, less hospitals. And that is fine, but why live in delusion? Why is the "self-supporting" lie so important, when USA Today laughs at it.
You are overlooking a number of glaring facts there. First of all, the TIF only paid for site preparation for the general area, not just specifically for the ballpark. It paid to bring in some bulldozers and level ground, sculpting the terrain and so forth. The county, and the state for that matter does not miss a single cent in taxes because the very same taxes that have always been paid on the private land continue to be paid for the duration of the TIF. What is not taxed for a specified period of time is the improvements placed on the land, however, after a specified period of time (I believe, but am not certain, it is 20 years) the improvements are normally taxed so both the county and the state actually come out ahead in the process because new value is added to the tax rolls.
The ballpark, which, as you correctly said, is owned by the county and would not be subject to anyone's taxes in any event. It was NOT built with state funds ... not one cent of state funds. It was financed with bonds issued by the county. Those bonds have leases in place that guarantee payments to retire them. The leases are with WVU Athletics and the minor league team the Black Bears. So, in reality, there isn't even any county money involved with the project.
The money to build the ballpark comes from private investors who bought the bonds, and they will be paid back, with interest, as the bonds are retired.
Mon County is very solvent, and had no trouble marketing their bonds at a favorable rate. I don't know about the financial condition of Cabell? Perhaps, if they can get the appropriate guarantees for repayment in place ... iron clad leases and the like, they could do the same thing?
Mon County's ballpark has become a very popular venue. For WVU's baseball team, it offers an outstanding entertainment value. For $6 or $7 depending on the seats, fans see some of the Nation's best college baseball teams come to play the Mountaineers, and in addition they are literally entertained throughout the game with various contests, things for kids and the like. This week, for example, they just finished a 3 game series with #19 Texas, and Maryland is coming to town tomorrow evening. Pitt, Penn State, and Virginia Tech also bring in nice crowds as do all the league teams.
Black Bears tickets are more expensive. I believe they are in the $10 to $12 range, but they draw not only locally. A lot of Pittsburgh area folks attend those games since the Black Bears are a Pirates affiliate, so the fans come from the southwest corner of PA, Maryland, and North Central WV for those games. There is basically a seamless transition from the college to the minor league games, and the ballpark is used consistently throughout the baseball season.
Crowds have been good there. They had more than 2,600 on Saturday and more than 2,000 on Sunday in spite of cold weather, and that looks to improve as the weather gets better. They make good money from concessions and apparel sales too.
They're playing Marshall here in the not too distant future, and offering tickets as a dollar night. You might want to consider coming up to see it. You could bring the whole family at a bargain price and they would be sure to have a good time.
Last edited:
Gary, it's hard to keep track of all the intricacies of funding and the like. I'm sure Sam has some valid points in terms of TIF's. It's just that the TIF is not really a major issue in terms of the ballpark, which is public property and wouldn't be taxed no matter how anything was done there.
The money to build it is all, 100% of it, private investor money, not state money. it has been decades since WVU took any state money to build anything for their athletic program ... at least 48 years. Their projected revenue this year (with the league football championship money factored in) will be between $117 million and $118 million, maybe even higher since they're getting a kiss from Charlotte for playing Tennessee there. They're doing okay without handouts from the state.
WVU has been fortunate in arranging not only private - public partnerships in general, but in terms of athletics partnering with local government and foundations for facilities. The new aquatic center will be Olympic quality, and will benefit the local schools as well as the University. They have also added a dirt bike trail to the complex in the past year. There is no state money going into this project either.
http://wvmetronews.com/2015/11/05/community-track-and-aquatic-center-planned-for-monongalia-county/
Last edited:
Don't know how many Pittsburgh area people are going to Motown regularly for college baseball games. Have watched a lot of Pirates games on the tube this spring and despite a good start on the field the Bucs aren't drawing crap attendance wise.
Of course, with a new stadium, 30,000 students and the overall economy in NC WV, WVU should do well even with a team playing a little over .500 baseball.
Of course, with a new stadium, 30,000 students and the overall economy in NC WV, WVU should do well even with a team playing a little over .500 baseball.
You're right. They pretty much do well regardless of the teams record. When it warms up, they'll likely do even better.
I don't believe many people come here from Pittsburgh itself for the Black Bears, but we see a lot of fans from Fayette County (Uniontown), Greene County (Waynesburg) and southern Washington County as well as fans from Garrett County, MD and all of NCWV for the minor league games. They're less expensive than Pirates games, and for folks south of the 'Burgh they are far easier to get to.
Getting through the tunnels into Pittsburgh when they have a game up there is a major project in and of itself. You can be at the Mon ballpark in 40 minutes from Washington. It takes 20 minutes on a good night just to get through the tunnels, sometimes half an hour as traffic often backs up to Squirrel Hill.
Hey now, you know that the key to avoiding the traffic, tunnel tie-ups, etc., is to go early enough and spend some quality pre game time in the friendly "watering holes" near PNC Park!!
True. But a lot of folks don't have the opportunity to do that because of working and the like. I really can't get inside peoples' heads and tell you why they drive down for Black Bears games. I just know I see a lot of them there.Hey now, you know that the key to avoiding the traffic, tunnel tie-ups, etc., is to go early enough and spend some quality pre game time in the friendly "watering holes" near PNC Park!!
An update on current funding levels. The Big XII just announced their fiscal year 2017 revenue, which is up 18% from the previous year ... considerably better than expected. In part, that is due to the fact that they added a conference football championship game, and in part due to the fact that the league had a team in the 4 team national championship playoffs.
$37.1 million will be WVU's share of league revenues this year, and since Big XII teams all own their own Tier 3 media rights, which WVU markets primarily to IMG for around $9 million per year, the league and media related income this past year is in the $46 million range. As a means for comparison, 15 teams (counting part time member Notre Dame) split the $415 million ACC conference revenue, and in that league, every team except Notre Dame has to give their Tier 3 rights to the conference, so except for Notre Dame, the total league and media payout per ACC team is around $28 million for the current fiscal year, which is $18 million less than WVU will receive. Notre Dame, owning their Tier 3 rights, of course does much better than the other ACC related programs.
So, if you're wondering how WVU pays for their many improvement and construction projects, the short answer is they can afford to pay for them with their program income, and if their is any bond indebtedness, they use operating income to pay to retire the bonds.
$37.1 million will be WVU's share of league revenues this year, and since Big XII teams all own their own Tier 3 media rights, which WVU markets primarily to IMG for around $9 million per year, the league and media related income this past year is in the $46 million range. As a means for comparison, 15 teams (counting part time member Notre Dame) split the $415 million ACC conference revenue, and in that league, every team except Notre Dame has to give their Tier 3 rights to the conference, so except for Notre Dame, the total league and media payout per ACC team is around $28 million for the current fiscal year, which is $18 million less than WVU will receive. Notre Dame, owning their Tier 3 rights, of course does much better than the other ACC related programs.
So, if you're wondering how WVU pays for their many improvement and construction projects, the short answer is they can afford to pay for them with their program income, and if their is any bond indebtedness, they use operating income to pay to retire the bonds.
WVU just bought a 9 hole golf course for the golf program
Thank God for B12 revenue! That’s the key to being “self sufficient”.
It would be interesting to see how many schools make a profit athletically after deducting media rights and revenue sharing.
It would be interesting to see how many schools make a profit athletically after deducting media rights and revenue sharing.
Last edited:
XII income and media rights have moved WVU into the Top 25 in terms of athletic revenue. They do okay with ticket sales, apparel sales and donations too though.
Some of the schools are absolute giants financially ... Texas, Alabama, Michigan, Ohio State, Florida, Oklahoma = mega bucks. At around $120 million per year, WVU is not in that club but they are doing okay.
LOL different spelling. My name is an anglicized version of the German name Seemann.
Friday’s Bluefield Daily Telegraph:
“We are getting ready here in the near future to kick off another capitol campaign to quite possibly for the first time ever build a baseball stadium at Marshall University.” - @TheHerdAD ⚾️
“We are getting ready here in the near future to kick off another capitol campaign to quite possibly for the first time ever build a baseball stadium at Marshall University.” - @TheHerdAD ⚾️
Mike @HerdFan20 writes:
I would love it to be a baseball stadium and a replacement for the CAM. The Cam will be 40 years old in 3 years and was never built right in the 1st place. Maybe just maybe if its both they could start on a replacement in 3 years. Means we would have to play in BSA 2-3 years.
I would love it to be a baseball stadium and a replacement for the CAM. The Cam will be 40 years old in 3 years and was never built right in the 1st place. Maybe just maybe if its both they could start on a replacement in 3 years. Means we would have to play in BSA 2-3 years.
Crazy idea. Tear down the Cam, rebuild on that site a 10K all chairback arena and use for MU sports plus concerts, etc.
Then tear down Big Sandy and build a 2500 seat baseball stadium on that site, use TIF money. Wild!
Then tear down Big Sandy and build a 2500 seat baseball stadium on that site, use TIF money. Wild!
The baseball stadium is being proposed to be east of Logan Packing and north of the softball stadium.
Yep. While I like the fantasy idea I proposed, that area has been the best location since the ACF lot was basically ruled out. The curvature of the RR tracks make that a natural boundary for the outfield fence.
Similar threads
