Zelensky has asked Congress to enforce a no fly zone against Russia. Who on here supports us enforcing this? You can caveat it all you want, but it’s really just a yes or no answer.
Should a No Fly Zone Be Enforced?
- Thread starter SamSwimmer
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That would be a direct escalation and would probably result in a nuclear response from from Putin. I don’t think you can take that risk. So no.
I don’t think people quite understand that’s petty much what enforcing the no fly zone means. In fact, a few organizations are asking the same question twice - only when they ask the second time, they’re mentioning the very real implications of its enforcement. Support drops noticeably when the consequences are mentioned
Maybe, maybe not. Option currently is to sit by and watch thousands and thousands more being slaughtered.
Big question, what happens if Russia eventually takes over Ukraine, and then moves onto NATO countries? We gonna continue to sit on the sidelines, or are we then willing to risk nuclear war? Depending on which expert you listen to, Putin may or may not move into other countries.
One country could put a stop to it today, and that's China. Unfortunately, I'm not sure they really give a fvck, unless it somehow begins to negatively impact them in some form or fashion.
We’ve already levied historic sanctions. Enforcing the no-fly zone would undoubtedly be viewed as an act of war that would draw serious retribution.
I get all of that. We're scared. Scared of Putin.
Just glad we weren't scared of Hitler back in the 40s.
Putin's worst nightmare is seeing the allies bomb the **** out of him. But yet, his threats sent Mush back to the basement.
Russia invades a NATO country, China invades Taiwan. That puts the US in a tough spot. Possibly fighting wars in two areas and stretching our sources thin. They have us where they want us.
We have 100k troops over there. There’s a lot of shit that’s gonna come out after the fog of war lifts - it’s Ukraine after all. I’m not for allowing land grabs but I’m also not for actions that will definitely put tens of thousands of our troops in peril. Plus, I’ve seen very little during this administration that leads me to believe they’re competent enough to handle the fallout
Mush and the generals do scare me a little, based on what they did with screwing up the Afghanistan surrender.
Did you watch the video Zelensky played for Congress today? If not, watch it, and then determine if you have the stomach to know that shit is going to continue to play out week after week.
Best scenario, outside of China telling little brother to go home, would be for the Ukrainians to defeat them on their own, but I don't see that as a possibility, other than dragging it out for a couple months, which means more and more civilians will die.
No, unless the American people are prepared for war against a nea peer threat. And you are prepared for China to engage also along with Iran.
This means major combat in the ground and air.
My answer is no.
That may shock you. But we should have tried to stop putin prior. Too late.
If you want a multi front near peer war across the globe then the answer is yes
My answer is no. We simply cannot have an American no fly zone in Ukraine.
No we are not prepared for that .
This is real shit and on the edge and is no damn joke
This means major combat in the ground and air.
My answer is no.
That may shock you. But we should have tried to stop putin prior. Too late.
If you want a multi front near peer war across the globe then the answer is yes
My answer is no. We simply cannot have an American no fly zone in Ukraine.
No we are not prepared for that .
This is real shit and on the edge and is no damn joke
Putin is not going to use Nukes against the US. Like Gen Milley said, it's doubtful he will use it on the battlefield of Ukraine. There would be a high probability of the fallout going to NATO county or even back to Russia. They won't risk that.
What do think is going to happen the first time an American pilot is shot down? Or a Russian pilot?
NATO is the red line. If they invaded a NATO country the only possible response would be a counterattack on Russia with all of NATO’s resources.
edit: Which would be a complete disaster for Russia. And they know this, at least now, if they didn’t already.
Yes. A Russian boot or bomb over a NATO border absolutely cannot be tolerated.
It’s a tough call. We act on Russia, then China moves on Taiwan, and Iran probably attacks Israel either directly or indirectly. They are all already aligned and have told Biden to go fvck himself.
correct, we are teetering on ww3 already, this is a voliatile situation.
they are moving and russia was the first one to act seriously. This stuff is not a ****ing joke and we have a lame brain adminsitration. This would not have happened under any other admin, Obama, Clinton, Bush, Trump, hell even Carter.
This is teetering on a very bad situation. This is WW3 level stuff on the edge. we could be in a three front conflict. the chinese are ****ing serious about tawain.
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We are flooding that region with weapons & funding. We’ve also levied historic sanctions (which are coming back to punish our own citizens as well as millions of innocent Russians). I am not unsympathetic to the plight of Ukrainian citizens. But Zelensky’s not in a position to dictate to us how to fight his war
Yes, actually. Because it will 100% be viewed as an act of war when the first Ruskie dies.
"Russia has turned the Ukrainian sky into a source of death for thousands of people," he said. "Is this a lot to ask for, to create a no-fly zone?"
Yes, actually. Because it will 100% be viewed as an act of war when the first Ruskie dies.
Yeah, for as unpredictable as Putin is, one thing I feel really safe in predicting is the following:
If NATO planes shoot down a Russian plane Putin will consider that an act of war.
By this point Putin knows he cannot possibly win a conventional war against NATO. It would be a massacre.
Putin will not just give up on Ukraine because NATO is here. That would make Russia a non-factor in terms of influence for a generation. Think they already are? They still have significant influence in India. And a hazy relationship with China that will turn into subservience real quick if China thinks they can make that play.
Putin will see that his only opportunity at preserving power for Russia in the world is a nuclear attack. My guess is that it would be a "limited" one, to give the West an incentive to not retaliate, to avoid a full blown nuclear war.
And at that point, God, or whomever you believe in, help us all.
Hell no. We should disband NATO and focus on trying to salvage the civilization than better generations gave us.
Putin is a rational actor, despite what the tv tells you. He has used precision to preserve human life. He wants what (let's face it) is culturally Russia's, and sees NATO going against its word creeping perilously close to its borders. Zelenzky is a crisis actor, and also a literal actor. Not one american life is worth saving the global money-laundering state called Ukraine.
I truly feel bad for the innocent Ukranians whose lives have been lost and are forced to live in a war zone. Maybe their puppet president shouldn't force them into combat with a vastly superior military.
Putin is a rational actor, despite what the tv tells you. He has used precision to preserve human life. He wants what (let's face it) is culturally Russia's, and sees NATO going against its word creeping perilously close to its borders. Zelenzky is a crisis actor, and also a literal actor. Not one american life is worth saving the global money-laundering state called Ukraine.
I truly feel bad for the innocent Ukranians whose lives have been lost and are forced to live in a war zone. Maybe their puppet president shouldn't force them into combat with a vastly superior military.
correct, that is russian doctrine. We did that in WW2 in some areas ourselves. But, it is in their doctrine now.
The precision of having absolute air superiority and reining it in to preserve life. Putin could take Ukraine tomorrow if he had no regard for human suffering. The corporate media propaganda has convinced too many of you that this is a black and white issue of good vs. evil.
In the end Putin will get exactly what he wants as he has all of the leverage. Ukraine's actor president continues to use his people as human shields, trying to drag the world into nuclear war, all for what? To defend the indefensible? The parts of Ukraine Putin is after is culturally Russian anyway.
correct. The seeds of war are growing. there is too much movement going on.
I do view the chinese and tawain a different issue and that would make us ask serious, serious questions. It woiuld nearly equate or perhaps even more in the modern economy to what the Japense did in the Pacific prior to Pearh Harbor. If they get Tawain we are in deep trouble.
Good Points. Although, I do disagree that he could conventionally take Ukraine. I don't think they could and hold it. Their military has made some mistakes and has some issues. THey would have deep trouble taking Kyiv and holding it or even taking it at all. That is a nasty urban warfare scenario for them.
That being said, I did say on here some days ago we do not understand russian doctrine or their mindset. They will bomb the crap out of anything. Part of that is they way they rely on artillery but, part of it is their value system vs ours. They will bomb everything to the enemy will submit, including civilains.
But, we need to be very careful not to get into something that has a terrible ending.
I’m confused as to how Murox is posting while Tucker Carlson is on. Is he like on his phone under the desk or…?
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