Wagner Groups Armed Rebellion

[Raoul Duke MU]

Never in a million years did I think someone would attempt a coup against Putin, and Putin would be like "no big deal" and let them walk away.

If you are a Russian oligarch, this has likely lessened your opinion of Putin.

None of this makes a bit of sense.

 

[HerdandHokies]

If you’re a Russian oligarch you just learned that a private military is a really neat and useful thing to have and can get you what you want.

If you’re curious how this works out in the long run take a look at fall of the Western Roman Empire.

It’s worth considering that Putin behaved the way he did because he had no other choice.

 

[Marshall Jeff]

Yes, otherwise you would not be heeding my advice.

Are you still mad over the Matt Gaetz thing?

Matt Gaetz is having an interesting week

It is not everyday a member of congress has multiple major stories about them in the news. 1. He is thinking about resigning and working for Newsmax 2. He is under investigation by the DOJ 2a. He tweeted his family is the victim of an extortion attempt and his father is actively helping the FBI...

marshall.forums.rivals.com

 

[i am herdman]

Never in a million years did I think someone would attempt a coup against Putin, and Putin would be like "no big deal" and let them walk away.

If you are a Russian oligarch, this has likely lessened your opinion of Putin.

None of this makes a bit of sense.

We live in a bizarre world. Nothing anymore makes any sense at all.

For the most part, we are being played in a lot of areas.

Remember this and this comes from a Newsweek article and it is a pretty good statement:
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However, Russia did not invade Ukraine merely because America agreed to defend Albania or that NATO rejected the Kremlin's rather vague requests to join the alliance. What alarmed Russia so profoundly that it reacted militarily was the explicit effort to pry Ukraine out of Moscow's orbit and bring it into NATO.
-----------------

Ukraine is vastly strategic historically to Russia, not limited to Putin. Why? It is one of the 5 or so Axis of attack avenues to Russia and perhaps the most important. Strategically, Ukraine is vastly important to Russia as a buffer because strategically speaking it is a highway to Moscow in terms of an attack. That is why they are ultimiately at war. Think of Canada being at Soviet Block country in the days of the Soviet Union. Not the best analogy but maybe the closest. Open plains and avenues of attack to the interior of the United States. A main attack from western Europe into Russia would certainly involve Ukraine. Russia was on a timetable to stop it and had to do it before they became NATO. Putin knew this. So, ifn they change leaders they are not walking away from Ukraine totally or it at all. Yes, there are other things like energy, ports, grain, pot ash, etc. Ultiimately, Ukraine is a a n axis of attack into Russia.

 

[herdfan06]

Are you still mad over the Matt Gaetz thing?

Matt Gaetz is having an interesting week

It is not everyday a member of congress has multiple major stories about them in the news. 1. He is thinking about resigning and working for Newsmax 2. He is under investigation by the DOJ 2a. He tweeted his family is the victim of an extortion attempt and his father is actively helping the FBI...

marshall.forums.rivals.com

Why would I be mad? Was I incorrect when I stated that he was having an interesting week?

 

[big_country90]

If you’re a Russian oligarch you just learned that a private military is a really neat and useful thing to have and can get you what you want.

If you’re curious how this works out in the long run take a look at fall of the Western Roman Empire.

It’s worth considering that Putin behaved the way he did because he had no other choice.

That’s what I think. Putin saw them slicing through Russia like a hot knife through butter and knew he had to act.

 

[herdfan429]

That’s what I think. Putin saw them slicing through Russia like a hot knife through butter and knew he had to act.

By leaving? And letting him off?

 

[i am herdman]

That’s what I think. Putin saw them slicing through Russia like a hot knife through butter and knew he had to act.

Don't think so. Desn't add up. If he was going through Russia like a hot knife with butter why did he stop? Wagner would have got crushed in Moscow. Dude was fairly popular though, but Putin has immense forces near Moscow. Wagner could not have toppled them nor the govt.

If Wagner was going to take them over and doing it easily why did Wagner stop? Then, why did Putin let him go?


Remains to be seen. But, there is some strange shit going on.

 

[herdfan429]

Don't think so. Desn't add up. If he was going through Russia like a hot knife with butter why did he stop? Wagner would have got crushed in Moscow. Dude was fairly popular though, but Putin has immense forces near Moscow. Wagner could not have toppled them nor the govt.

If Wagner was going to take them over and doing it easily why did Wagner stop? Then, why did Putin let him go?


Remains to be seen. But, there is some strange shit going on.

90+% of Russian military soldiers are in ukraine. I’m not saying Moscow didn’t have troops but they were having to call up tha volunteer force to set up blockades. It’s not exactly the green berets they were dealing with

 

[19MU88]

Are you still mad over the Matt Gaetz thing?

Matt Gaetz is having an interesting week

It is not everyday a member of congress has multiple major stories about them in the news. 1. He is thinking about resigning and working for Newsmax 2. He is under investigation by the DOJ 2a. He tweeted his family is the victim of an extortion attempt and his father is actively helping the FBI...

marshall.forums.rivals.com

06 is one of those libiot useful idiots. Swallow that propaganda and fake news like a sheep. A life of bliss.

 

[i am herdman]

0+% of Russian military soldiers are in ukraine. I’m not saying Moscow didn’t have troops but they were having to call up tha volunteer force to set up blockades. It’s not exactly the green berets they were dealing with

No, I don't believe all the western reports of that. But, they have committed a large part of their Army. There are still a divisions worth of men in and around moscow and many of the best weapons and much of their best two divsions remain in Russia. Their Air Force remains pretty much in tact, losing less than 100 planes. Their Navy really uneffected, lost one ship. They kept their best tanks in Russia until a few months ago. Their first waves of men were basically conscripts and draftees or bullet to the head if you don't go to Ukraine. Hell, you can put up data on-line that shows nearly a divsion in western Russia. Plus, troops in Belarus and other places. They have troops doing things in Syria still. RUssia can still throw a lot at Ukraine. Russia threw the most inexperienced people into Ukraine to fight first, throwing bodies and old shit at it.

Russia is moronic in many aspects, playing a numbers game that they think(in reality it does) against Ukraine. Ukraine has a big problem of running out of people to fight. Russia does but, it is much larger than Ukraine.

Right now basically their 1st Corps and 2nd Corps are in Ukraine. 6th Army is up near Finland. their best tank corp is in Moscow. They have 2 or 3 divsions in the east of Russia. nearly a division on the border of Russia/ Georgia. They have things spattered all over the place.

We do propoganda as well. They won't tell the people that the Urkaines counteroffensive right now is going nowhwere.

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gfsis.org.ge

 

[herdfan429]

No, I don't believe all the western reports of that. But, they have committed a large part of their Army. There are still a divisions worth of men in and around moscow and many of the best weapons and much of their best two divsions remain in Russia. Their Air Force remains pretty much in tact, losing less than 100 planes. Their Navy really uneffected, lost one ship. They kept their best tanks in Russia until a few months ago. Their first waves of men were basically conscripts and draftees or bullet to the head if you don't go to Ukraine. Hell, you can put up data on-line that shows nearly a divsion in western Russia. Plus, troops in Belarus and other places. They have troops doing things in Syria still. RUssia can still throw a lot at Ukraine. Russia threw the most inexperienced people into Ukraine to fight first, throwing bodies and old shit at it.

Russia is moronic in many aspects, playing a numbers game that they think(in reality it does) against Ukraine. Ukraine has a big problem of running out of people to fight. Russia does but, it is much larger than Ukraine.

Right now basically their 1st Corps and 2nd Corps are in Ukraine. 6th Army is up near Finland. their best tank corp is in Moscow. They have 2 or 3 divsions in the east of Russia. nearly a division on the border of Russia/ Georgia. They have things spattered all over the place.

We do propoganda as well. They won't tell the people that the Urkaines counteroffensive right now is going nowhwere.

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gfsis.org.ge

Sorry I just don’t buy the Russian military is great and should be feared. Yes they have dangerous weapons but tactically and personnel wise I don’t buyit.

 

[-CarlHungus-]

Nobody knows what is up. That’s my conclusion.

 

[i am herdman]

Sorry I just don’t buy the Russian military is great and should be feared. Yes they have dangerous weapons but tactically and personnel wise I don’t buyit.

I am not saying they are the best. But, would you want to fight them?

The point is the war in Ukraine at this point is basically a stalemate.

 

[big_country90]

Russia like a hot knife with butter why did he stop?

He got paid off.

 

[-CarlHungus-]

I am not saying they are the best. But, would you want to fight them?

The point is the war in Ukraine at this point is basically a stalemate.

Yes, and ?no end in sight? Certainly Russia looks weaker this Monday, but I still don't see this war ending any time soon.

Plus they have suspended all elections in Ukraine as well per Zelensky "until the war is over." So figuring out if the Ukranians want it to go on as is will be impossible.

 

[-CarlHungus-]

He got paid off.

Others were speculating (again, no one has any clue) that Putin had close family of the hot dog general ready to be assassinated as well.

 

[i am herdman]

Nobody knows what is up. That’s my conclusion.

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exactly, these think tanks and comittees half the time are full of shit. The older and wiser I get, the more I am realizing that. Half the time there is a lot pyschological warfare going on and propoganda. Many times, follow the money.

We have states that can't even count votes in a timely manner. Look at what went on during Covid. Look at what went on in the GWOT for 20 years. But, yet they tell us this and that and they know this and that about these other places. Hell, our leader come out and give these briefings and you can use common research and things and go they are not telling the full story.

Maybe we paid that Wagner leader the missing 6 billion to do what he did and he played them. hahahhaahah, a joke but would it not be funny?

 

[HerdandHokies]

I am not saying they are the best. But, would you want to fight them?

The point is the war in Ukraine at this point is basically a stalemate.

If Russia’s troops stayed loyal to Putin then they’d have won for sure.

I don’t think putin was sure that would happen.

 

[herdfan429]

I am not saying they are the best. But, would you want to fight them?

The point is the war in Ukraine at this point is basically a stalemate.

I don’t want to fight anyone but if it came to that I’m not overly concerned about Russia considering they are in a stalemate with Ukraine

 

[i am herdman]

I don’t want to fight anyone but if it came to that I’m not overly concerned about Russia considering they are in a stalemate with Ukraine

you are not because you won't be doing the fighting. this is not a football game.

these are major land battles that we haven't been involved in for decades.

Plus, Russia actually has ways to disrupt or attack us here or other places.

 

[-CarlHungus-]

@i am herdman

Thoughts on this?

 

[herdfan429]

you are not because you won't be doing the fighting. this is not a football game.

these are major land battles that we haven't been involved in for decades.

Plus, Russia actually has ways to disrupt or attack us here or other places.

They haven’t been successful against ukraine. You understand that right? If we can’t do better than Ukraine then we should all just go ahead and learn Russian.

And we have aircraft carriers. The Russians don’t have any because the piece of shit one they do have keeps catching fire.

Yes they have icbms and nukes but so do we.

 

[i am herdman]

They haven’t been successful against ukraine. You understand that right? If we can’t do better than Ukraine then we should all just go ahead and learn Russian.

And we have aircraft carriers. The Russians don’t have any because the piece of shit one they do have keeps catching fire.

Yes they have icbms and nukes but so do we.

This isn't a game. These are land battles and trench warfare against standing armies.

You can cheerlead but people would die.

 

[herdfan429]

This isn't a game. These are land battles and trench warfare against standing armies.

You can cheerlead but people would die.

Where did I say people wouldn’t die? All I’m saying is the Russian military, personnel and tactics especially, isn’t in our league. I’m not advocating for a war with them

 

[HerdandHokies]

Yes they have icbms and nukes but so do we.

I mean that’s a pretty big thing to just brush of

Edit: talking about a war with Russia means defining what our objective would be. Invasion and occupation? Go look at Afghanistan for how easy that is to do against some goat herders, now try against a second tier world power.

Neutering their nuclear capability? They’re going to shoot nukes. They’re going to detonate nukes off the coast and make nuclear tidal waves hit coastal cities. We have more nukes? Neat; once they’re facing an existential threat anyway that isn’t a deterrent anymore.

I’m confident we could push them out of Ukraine. Our air power superiority would be the difference maker. It wouldn’t be easy but we would win. But we don’t know how the reaction would be in terms of nukes.

 

[alphasig1053]

The Financial Times is reporting that senior members of the Kremlin are saying that charges have not been dropped.

 

[i am herdman]

I mean that’s a pretty big thing to just brush of

Edit: talking about a war with Russia means defining what our objective would be. Invasion and occupation? Go look at Afghanistan for how easy that is to do against some goat herders, now try against a second tier world power.

Neutering their nuclear capability? They’re going to shoot nukes. They’re going to detonate nukes off the coast and make nuclear tidal waves hit coastal cities. We have more nukes? Neat; once they’re facing an existential threat anyway that isn’t a deterrent anymore.

I’m confident we could push them out of Ukraine. Our air power superiority would be the difference maker. It wouldn’t be easy but we would win. But we don’t know how the reaction would be in terms of nukes.

Good points. America does not need to be destroyed over Ukraine. These think tank nit wit boobs in DC need to reel this shit in. For some reason they want to topple the old remnants of the Sovite Union. Great, Putin goes, who's next? Might be worse. Or a rogue fool with Nukes. They already moved them into Belarus.

There are things even at my old age I might be willing to take a bullet for. Ukraine isn't one of them. P

 

[herdfan06]

06 is one of those libiot useful idiots. Swallow that propaganda and fake news like a sheep. A life of bliss.

 

[HerdandHokies]

So Prigozhin is holed up in a windowless hotel room? I believe those are sometimes called “cells.”

Is it possible that he and Putin are confused as the rest of us as to what has happened?

 

[herdfan429]

So Prigozhin is holed up in a windowless hotel room? I believe those are sometimes called “cells.”

Is it possible that he and Putin are confused as the rest of us as to what has happened?

That’s so he can’t accidentally fall out of the window

 

[i am herdman]

Let me run this scenario by you and I just watched a former CIA operative run this scenario and it will make you think.

Was this really a coup? No. Wagner could never topple the Russian govt with 400 vehicles.

Why would Putin let them go? Normally he wouldn't

Why would a proxy dictator in Belarus, leader of a mercenary group, and Putin make a 3 way deal? Likely would never happen as it did.

So, what is the deflection here. Let me explain and it makes damn good sense.

So, Wagner's forces can now go to Belarus per Putin. That is 25,000 men give or take. Russia currently has 30,000 troops in Belarus. Those Wagner troops can perhaps stay Wagner or be absorbed into regular Russian ranks. Either way that makes that force 55,000 men in Belarus.

Where is the Urkranian counter offensive? In the Southern part of Ukraine. Where is most of the fighting now? In Southern Ukraine.

Where is Kyiv? In the Northern part of Ukraine. Where does Urkaine have to move forces? They have to move them into the Southern part of Ukraine.

Just north of Kyiv will be these 55,000 Russian troops.

Are the Russians setting up for a campaign to attack Kyiv?

If Kyiv falls, the Russians just took the capital. Remember initially Kyiv was attacked early in the war when Ukraine could defend it much better.

Are the Russians setting up for a Northern counteroffensive, setting up a two front war, stretching Ukrainian forces thin?

Is this what the Russians are up to?

 

[herdfan429]

Let me run this scenario by you and I just watched a former CIA operative run this scenario and it will make you think.

Was this really a coup? No. Wagner could never topple the Russian govt with 400 vehicles.

Why would Putin let them go? Normally he wouldn't

Why would a proxy dictator in Belarus, leader of a mercenary group, and Putin make a 3 way deal? Likely would never happen as it did.

So, what is the deflection here. Let me explain and it makes damn good sense.

So, Wagner's forces can now go to Belarus per Putin. That is 25,000 men give or take. Russia currently has 30,000 troops in Belarus. Those Wagner troops can perhaps stay Wagner or be absorbed into regular Russian ranks. Either way that makes that force 55,000 men in Belarus.

Where is the Urkranian counter offensive? In the Southern part of Ukraine. Where is most of the fighting now? In Southern Ukraine.

Where is Kyiv? In the Northern part of Ukraine. Where does Urkaine have to move forces? They have to move them into the Southern part of Ukraine.

Just north of Kyiv will be these 55,000 Russian troops.

Are the Russians setting up for a campaign to attack Kyiv?

If Kyiv falls, the Russians just took the capital. Remember initially Kyiv was attacked early in the war when Ukraine could defend it much better.

Are the Russians setting up for a Northern counteroffensive, setting up a two front war, stretching Ukrainian forces thin?

Is this what the Russians are up to?

Makes sense but it could have been done without the “coup”

 

[i am herdman]

Makes sense but it could have been done without the “coup”

Maybe, by the coup is a distraction. Look how the media world reacted. Plus, if they jsut started moving troops that would be more of a giveaway.

Today, we are in information wars.

 

[alphasig1053]

Maybe, by the coup is a distraction. Look how the media world reacted. Plus, if they jsut started moving troops that would be more of a giveaway.

Today, we are in information wars.

I thought Wagner troops had already been pulled out of the fighting until August,before all of this happened.

 

[i am herdman]

I thought Wagner troops had already been pulled out of the fighting until August,before all of this happened.

Maybe so. They are going to be integrated into the Soviet "regular army" or may form back up again.

The sneaky bastards are up to something.