Fire Doc
- Thread starter Herdfaninnoke
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That's a pretty foolish question to pose. If a G5 coach has a solid winning percentage, he is going to get opportunities for far better paydays at the P5 level. So it is rare that a G5 coach would have a .750 winning percentage and still be at the G5 level. And without looking at OOC schedules, there is no way to fairly determine if a coach should be at .750. But looking at conference slates it is very easy to make that determination.
Doc should absolutely be at least at .750 in C-USA play. That is going an average of 6-2 each season. Considering the advantages Marshall football has over the rest of the conference and how bad/new the division is, Marshall should lose no more than one division game each year. Even if they lose one of their two crossover games, they still hit that .750 C-USA percentage.
Not including FCS records, here are current G5 coaches and recent G5 coaches who had at least a .750 winning percentage against their conference peers.
Josh Heupel is 18-3 overall including OOC games. Bryan Harsin has an .814 winning percentage in the MWC against his conference. Scott Satterfield had a .792 winning percentage at Appy State against his conference. Rod Carey had a .792 winning percentage at NIU against his conference. Jeff Brohm had a .792 winning percentage at WKU against his conference. Jeff Tedford has a .789 winning percentage in three years at Fresno State against MWC teams. Blake Anderson has a .750 winning percentage at Arkansas State against the Sun Belt. Matt Campbell had a .750 winning percentage at Toledo against his conference. Tom Herman had a .750 winning percentage at Houston against his conference. Scott Frost had a .750 winning percentage at UCF against his conference. Rocky Long is in his 9th season at SDSU and has a .754 winning percentage in the MWC if you take away his first season (.735 if you include his first season). Jimbo Fisher was .750 against ACC teams. Neal Brown was .719 at Troy against the Sun Belt (.833 if you take away his first season).
As you can see, there are a ton of coaches who currently or just recently were .750 within their conference. Most of those teams didn't have the advantages over their peers that Marshall has had over its peers. Yet Doc's C-USA winning percentage is only .632.
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Jimbo also is, as is David Shaw. It's amazing to think that David Shaw, even after Stanford has lost a lot of luster, is still at .750 coaching at a school like that in the PAC. That's damn impressive.
The West Coast bias is incredibly real when you consider Shaw's winning percentage and Rocky Long's winning percentage at San Diego State, yet neither of them are ever mentioned in the first few tiers of best coaches in FBS.
For the record, Doc is currently 67th on the list of current coaches when it comes to win percentage for their career. There are 28 current G5 head coaches with a better winning percentage as head coach.
herdmeister made the point and it was matter of fact. Short and to the point. I agree with herdmeister.
I don't know about the rest of your stuff in your post. Maybe it was meant for herdmeister.
Without cheating, now continue
Really? Ok, that old song and dance. I am sure that $20 an hour job over Chapman's for a few guys won all those games. Jim Donnan was a .722 coach combining MU and Georgia. So, just a little short of the .750 that the guy asked for. Oh, he got fired at Georgia and hate to tell anyone probably cheated at Marshall.
And, tell me why a coach with the schedules we play can't win 75% of the games? That's going 9 and 3 in the regular season. Have you seen our division? Damn, with out schedules there are 6 or 7 auto wins.
As stated most really good G5 coaches move up to P5 jobs. So, if we are going to have a lifer coach I think they could win at a .750 winning percentage, especially in this conference.
P5, Dabo, Saban, Jimbo Fisher, Bob Stoops, Urban Meyer, and Hell Woody Hayes of the top of my Head. Meyer coached at both(utah prior to P5 and Bowling Green) as did Saban a year at Toledo.
List of NCAA coaches and teams that don't cheat are as follows:
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I am fan. Our football program has stagnated as I have said 1, 472 times on here. You can like Doc all you want. I don't dislike nor Hamrick by the way. Don't know them. Have met them both a time or two just in passing. I feel that we are stuck in a rut and it is time for a change to bring new lifeblood into the program and energize the fan base of which many have left or passively follow. I know I don't put as much heart and sole into anymore. Frankly, it has become rather mundane. I think we are an underachieving football program and that is nothing personal towards anyone.
I do that that Hamrick made a mistake giving out those contract extensions and put the university in a bad spot by doing so. I have said that before.
I think the football program can do better. I have said that before.
I am hoping we go on to win a CUSA championship and I predicted us to win our division and to play in the CUSA championship game.
I think the table is nicely set for Doc each year with a manageable schedule in the OOC schedule and CUSA is not a good conference. I think Marshall University should strive to be the Alabama or Clemson of CUSA and I think we could dominate it.
But, more importantly MU is losing fan interest and that is business and needs to be addressed. If not they are going to lose a generations of fans. The fans are bored with it.
The thing about Perkins is, he's thrilled whether we win or lose. The outcome doesn't matter to him. At all.
Well, good for him. He is like those women that clap when the other team hits a 0 yard pass and our guy does a shoe string tackle and they clap. Whatever floats his boat.
This is supposed to be big boy football with professional coaches not E team ball where you are happy for Little Johnny.
At some point you realize this is a business for ENTERTAINMENT. That is what they need to realize down there at Marshall. This is ENTERTAINMENT not the DOT hiring your brother in law.
Marshall should strive to be the Clemson or Alabama of CUSA. Good Lord, this is basically a FCS league. I wonder if a CUSA team could even win it all in FCS? I wonder if they could even make it to the semi finals?
I understand the frustration on here over our lack of producing conference championships. However, to suggest that this is a fcs level conference cracks me up.
Accusing others of rule breaking because yore team has a history of such behavior is never a good look.
I didn't accuse any program of cheating. I am just saying it is a common practice.
Well, let's be honest. That team we beat Saturday lost to a FCS opponent already. I think they have two years in a row. How well do you think UNC CHarlotte and Old Dominion would do in FCS? How many CUSA teams do you think would beat the top 5 or so FCS schools. How about UT San Antonio and Rice? The list go on in any given year.
So, yehh some hyperbole there, but not far off. This is not a great league. If we played North Dakota State how many times you think we win?
Have you seen some of the teams we play in our conference? Hell, they were never that good in FCS. Or, weren't anything of sort anywhere.
Dumbest post in history. Congratulations! On this board that’s a great accomplishment!
The fact that two moderators Aaron and Josh liked it confirmed everything I thought about both of you. You guys aren’t fans of Marshall your fans of coaches or athletic department people who give you “insider” information and let them say they are your friends. So you both can say hey I know the coach aren’t I cool. Danny must not do that so you guys don’t like him. Maybe Herdmeister can give you Dans cell phone so you guys can text him and think you are really cool with them too.
The fact is the Bob Pruett era of Marshall football was the greatest era we have ever had and judging by the people who now run Marshall and many of our fans we will never get back there. We won championships put tons of kids in the pros had heisman finalists and played some of the best known programs in the country and beat some and scared the crap out of others. We had a ridiculous home record during that time as well. Lastly we did it by developing kids. Taking 2 and 3 star kids and turning them into 5 stars.
Cheating had zero to do with us winning during that era, absolute zero.
And those two want to get on me! I am agreeing with you. They want to crap all over the Pruett era which includes greats like Moss, Pennington, and Moss. The greatest era. They just want to cozy up with the current Athletic Department. I want us to win and do it well. I am a fan of the football program. Doesn't matter to me who the coach or AD is.
That old argument of us cheating was the reason for all those wins is lame and worn out.
Oh just do you know Herdman they both also feel that many of our past players from that era are ingrates.
You are 10000 percent correct. The cheating did not cause us to win games.
But it sure as heck caused us to lose a lot of games later on.
And what angers me the most is that I have been put in a position to demean the accomplishments of our greatest coach ever because fans now do nothing but rip on our current wins. Forget the fact you guys rip on our coaches. You question every win. It is ever good enough and it is always because the opponent was bad or done in spite of ourselves.
Frustrating. Don’t blame people like me for supporting everything Marshall as being a part of some problem that apparently exists.
I respect you and you and your opinions. But come on man. Times are different. You want to somehow compare eras. But you never want to compare the level of competition from then and now.
Anyway. Go Herd!
We hired a bad head coach, Mark Snyder. And, folks like you ran that lame excuse all the way into Doc's third or forth year.
If you are a fan you should demand more and doing better and striving to reach new heights not kiss the ass of the leaders.
Wow! Fellas, maybe time to step away. I go away from my phone for a couple of hours, & this thread goes off the rails! lol I was just pointing out the unrealistic expectations of winning 3 of every 4 games every (w/o exception) season. You pointed to some elite HC’s at perineal top 10 schools.....now are we supposed to hire Saban or Dabo to replace Doc? Of course not! That would be u n r e a l i s t I c. Get over your self! MU is never going to hire a coach that would stay more than 3 seasons winning .750 . And yeah, I get the “happy to be a stepping stone” theory, but does anyone here think we would hire, say 3 of these wunderkinds in a row and get ourselves into the CFB playoffs? I say (unlike Snyder, who we all had to turn our backs on in the end) stick w/Doc until he fails consistently, which so far he has not. Our schedule is very competitive for the next 4-5 seasons.
sure well we are not the only conference to lose to a fcs school. I will save you time here.
https://www.ncaa.com/news/football/article/fcs-wins-vs-fbs-teams-all-time-victories-upsets
Go through the list and you will see that there have been fcs schools that have defeated ranked FBS P5 schools as well.
Well no, crap. Upsets happen. I was using that as a reference for a team we just beat.
Dude, we are not a good FBS conference. I am not sure we have a team what would be in the top few of FCS. The middle to bottom of this league is really bad. Hell, watch the games. We could sleep walk through half of this league or we should anyway.
And for the record, I have said like 12 words to Doc in my life. I do not know him personally. I know that he has been successful here, and gotten our program to a point where you guys expect even more.
So that in itself must mean he has been successful.
So that in itself must mean he has been successful.
Well, FBS has 130 teams, we have 14 teams in our conference.
Of those 14 teams, 5 of them (over 35%) are rated outside of the top 130 teams in college football by Sagarin. Another 5 are rated between 100-130. So a little more than 70% of the conference is, on average, FCS quality having an average Sagarin rating of 137.5 (remember, only 130 FBS teams).
The central mean for CUSA is 57, it's 69.5 for the AAC. So they are 12.5 better than us based on Sagarin. There are 3 FCS conferences that are closer to CUSA then we are to the AAC, the Missouri Valley, Big Sky and Colonial.
Yeah, so essentially we are the top FCS conference, but the Missouri Valley is closing in.
ha ha , you really don't believe that do you? Here you go. Sagrin is not the Holy Grail of all things college football. Here is another source.
http://realtimerpi.com/college_football/ncaaf_conf.html
Funny, they have the Big ten ranked higher that the SEC,so using data isn't always the best indicator of who is the best. I will take the teams from C-USA over any FCS conference every day of the week.PS I don't think C-USA is as good as the AAC so I am not sure why the comparison.We are also higher rated than the MAC.
Not a chance, and anyone who truly knows college football wouldn’t argue otherwise. NDSU, JMU, and SDSU would stomp through C-USA. Nobody in C-USA would beat those three.
That’s because he dislikes talking to the person on the other end when you call.
Your failed attempt at spelling “perennial” is almost as bad as tour argument in this thread.
I posted numerous coaches from C-USA, the Sun Belt, MWC, and the AAC that had .750 win percentages within their conference.
Huh? The fact that Marshall fans expect more than one conference championship per decade in an awful conference is proof that Doc has been successful? God damn, that’s some Herd Fever logic going on.
Explain how one conference championship in a decade, at a place like Marshall, is considered successful when being in such a poor conference.
Not at all. I picked us to win our division this year and get to double digit wins.
We know. You were wrong time # 1 and still wrong time #1472.
You have superfandom, turned rotten.. You think MU should win most every game, because it should. You have no actual reasons, just that we "should". It is WVU level delusion.
Reasons have been provided numerous times why Marshall should achieve far more than they have in C-USA. You hide from those reasons and pretend that you don’t see them because you are a coward, Sammy.
The same can be said both ways Rifle. We have won more games in CUSA the last ten years than anyone. We have ran into a little bad luck, and a couple really good teams on our side during that time frame. There are 14 teams in this league. That is a lot. I think only one has won two titles in the same time frame.
Sure, everyone would like to win a championship every year. It hasnt happened, but we have still had a ton of football success under Doc Holliday. It is a shame that it goes unnoticed by most who disliked him from day one.
And even the way you guys word things. If we do win CUSA this year, or next, or every year, you have already prefaced it by saying it is a terrible conference.
So again, yet another no win situation.
But sure, I see your side in that it would have been nice to win more titles in this time frame. But you act like it has been a dumpster fire during his tenure, and that is far from the truth.
Sure, everyone would like to win a championship every year. It hasnt happened, but we have still had a ton of football success under Doc Holliday. It is a shame that it goes unnoticed by most who disliked him from day one.
And even the way you guys word things. If we do win CUSA this year, or next, or every year, you have already prefaced it by saying it is a terrible conference.
So again, yet another no win situation.
But sure, I see your side in that it would have been nice to win more titles in this time frame. But you act like it has been a dumpster fire during his tenure, and that is far from the truth.
Umm, that’s because only a few other teams (Southern Miss, Rice, and UTEP) have been consistently in the conference going back ten years. And all three of those teams have to play in a division that isn’t full of teams that had to go through growing pains of jumping from FCS to FBS
I’d hope we’d have more wins than all of the other teams who have played fewer seasons.
That’s like saying Oregon State has more PAC wins than Utah and hiding from the fact that Utah hasn’t been in the conference nearly as long.
If Marshall played in the local Huntington high school football conference, would you consider them to have a “ton of success” wining that league once in a decade? What if they win just their division two or three times in a decade? Would you consider that a ton of success? Of course not. Why wouldn’t you? Because Marshall has far more advantages to winning in football than those other schools. Likewise, Marshall has far more advantages to winning than the overwhelming number of C-USA schools. That’s why people aren’t happy with the very pedestrian success Marshall has had.
It is a terrible conference. Are you denying that? Hell, with that being said, if Marshall could simply win that terrible conference a third of the time, people would accept it as decent but not ideal. But once in a decade in a terrible conference that Marshall has significant advantages in? That is failure.
Nobody acts like that. Truly, if Snyder had the fortune of coaching in this version of C-USA, I am entirely positive that he’d have at least the same number of C-USA championships that Doc has and a very similar record.
